Thread: Player's Council - Warlock Enhancement - Souleater

Just a general comment, having caught up on some warlock reading today.
Is there any thought to the "Fear" component being shifted into a permanent aura?

Thematically, here's where I'm going with this -- we see Paladins give you "hope" or calm you in their presence, but it would seem appropriate that a Warlock would cause Fear in theirs to any mob gathering too close to them. Why not be immune to Fear but then also constantly cause Fear (w/a DC) to any mob gathering around you? Much like the green aura around skeleton mages, I was wondering if any thought had been given to permanent auras around Warlocks, perhaps in this tree, which are in a constant mode of causing Fear and potentially other negative effects to critters gathering around the Warlock.

Originally Posted by Tsoh

This is still a caster with access to the other caster spells, right?

Warlock spell books:

• Comprise largely of existing DDO spells
• Are unique and not exact copies of any other classes spellbooks
• Generally don't have damage-dealing spells (there's some weird thematic exceptions and things like negative levels which aren't quite damage, or maybe have ability score damage, etc.)
• Dip mostly into Arcane spells but also possibly Warlock-flavored Divine spells, though many of those spells also have Arcane equivalents. Doom feels like a Warlock-appropriate spell, right? (We know, no one is going to play Warlock for Doom, but flavor counts for something.)

Originally Posted by Nuclear_Elvis

Just a general comment, having caught up on some warlock reading today.
Is there any thought to the "Fear" component being shifted into a permanent aura?

For the moment Enlightened Spirit is our "aura" tree, which includes:

• 20 AP, class level 12: Aura of Menace: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Menace, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2.

Originally Posted by Vargouille

For the moment Enlightened Spirit is our "aura" tree, which includes:

• 20 AP, class level 12: Aura of Menace: Toggle: You project a 15 meter Aura of Menace, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2.

So any thoughts on updating the Aura of Menace to make up for the proxy nerfs since its original release?

Originally Posted by Vargouille

...For the moment Enlightened Spirit is our "aura" tree...

Okay, I understand that tree and that theme. Just a thought - that any/all Warlocks could have some "Aura" about them, as long as the right theme/purpose were built around it. Even a puny Fear aura in this case (even if the DC were only effective in Heroic), and perhaps the other tree could have its own aura of some different theme/purpose. I say this because it seems auras are overlooked in their potential to either have small/single spell or multiple/conglomerate spell effects, and the Aura could "grow" with the core enhancement tree row in potential/effects if done as a progressive build.

Update tree based on player feedback:

~ Core 2 and 4 now give fortification and saving throws versus disease and poison to reflect the Souleater's move towards Inhuman.

~ Core 3 also allows the Souleater to inflict the Shaken effect on enemies. This will help with DCs.

~ Bumped up Hungry for Destruction a bit to aid multiclassing, adding another enhancement of it at tier two. Are these too powerful for Warlock splashes?

~ Increased the effectiveness of Taint the Aura to 2 per rank, stacking up to 5 times.

~ Removed Spell Penetration, added Sugar Rush.

~ Added Dark Feeding. PC members wanted more enhancements that felt vampiric. This multi-selector allows the Souleater to feed on an opponent's attributes and add those stolen points to themselves.

~ Steal Lifeforce is now a multi-selector for you evil... err misunderstood Pale Master types.

~ Greater Hunger and Supreme Hunger now boost Consume effects more to compensate for the loss of lower level boosts. Supreme Hunger lets melee and ranged attacks also stack the damage over time while Consume if active.


Sev~

The core abilities are really boring imo, the only ones I'm actually looking forward to getting are the final 2 cores. Core 3 is acceptable, as is Core 2, I feel the rest still need some work.

Core 1 is still weaker than every other tree that grants +sp per point spent at level 1:
eg.
PM: For each point spent in this tree you gain +0.75 Universal Spell Power and +0.75 Negative Energy Spell Power
AM: +1 spell power and +2 spell points
Savant: +.75sp and a bunch of caster level / damage modifers per element.
Seasons Herald: +1 spell power per point spent
Spell Singer : +1 spell power + boosts per core.

Your core one is still weak and underwhelming, it's been pointed out already and you haven't addressed this. Are you deliberately making / wanting it to be the weakest core 1 ability for a spell caster? if so, why?
Change Core 1: Boost the spell power to 1ap per point spent or add +1hp per point spent as well.

Cores 1-4 really only apply the shaken ability to a mob. I'd like to see something else as an offensive property,
Getting inhuman nature at core 2 is fine, getting it as my 4th core at level 12 is not, +25% fort and +4 to saves again at 12 is abysmal.
Give me an offensive ability here,
eg. Enervation is added as an SLA
or: The shaken ability in core 3 is upgraded to Despair, additionally on vorpal your eldritch blast burns it's victims, (procing the burning blood spell)

Originally Posted by Severlin

Update tree based on player feedback:

~ Core 2 and 4 now give fortification and saving throws versus disease and poison to reflect the Souleater's move towards Inhuman.

~ Core 3 also allows the Souleater to inflict the Shaken effect on enemies. This will help with DCs.

~ Bumped up Hungry for Destruction a bit to aid multiclassing, adding another enhancement of it at tier two. Are these too powerful for Warlock splashes?

~ Increased the effectiveness of Taint the Aura to 2 per rank, stacking up to 5 times.

~ Removed Spell Penetration, added Sugar Rush.

~ Added Dark Feeding. PC members wanted more enhancements that felt vampiric. This multi-selector allows the Souleater to feed on an opponent's attributes and add those stolen points to themselves.

~ Steal Lifeforce is now a multi-selector for you evil... err misunderstood Pale Master types.

~ Greater Hunger and Supreme Hunger now boost Consume effects more to compensate for the loss of lower level boosts. Supreme Hunger lets melee and ranged attacks also stack the damage over time while Consume if active.


Sev~

Nonchalant towards

Yes, thank you

It is powerful, but not too powerful, with 6 point investment (if 1 per teir) that is +10% damage, great but not overpowered

Yes, thank you

uh.... sugar rush seems more childish than demonic, that said the actual ability... herm.... +X % = warlock level for a little while? since it is not permanent I would be almost willing to make it 2% per warlock level myself, that said it is nearly permanent....
(name idea) the prey, flees
I like the ability, I just wish there was a charisma version as well. Be warned that depending on what enemies are vulenerable to these attacks mental stats can be drained to 0 on some enemies quite easily making this a no save helpless tactic.

Thank you for understanding

consume being proc'd on melee/ranged could very well be powerful, making it proc % of the time may be better (though I am unsure)

Regarding Sugar Rush: I wish you would stop giving classes movement speed boosts, I also don't like the name, it seems far to childish. That said, I do like the direction you've taken, expanding upon consume beyond damage. Maybe we could borrow from ninja spy here, and have an ability that removes stacks or duration giving instant damage?

Supreme Hunger looks really good now, possibly too good, it will be interesting to playtest with on lam with IPS and cleaves.

Consume: Do the three separate attacks share a common activation cooldown?

Dark Feeding is essentially a permanent insight bonus to a selected stat, I'm ok with that, but as it's only a tier 3 ability, I would suggest making the buff match the cooldown, I don't think the buff exceeding the cooldown is appropriate for a t3 ability.

Steal life force, you still haven't mentioned if this is melee only, or if it will work with ranged. Also, are both the offensive portion and the healing portion boosted by positive spell power?

Hungry for Destruction is too much melee / ranged power. Consider changing to +1 damage and +1 MP/1 RP/2 USP per tier. That helps at the low end, whilst giving a moderate boost at cap too.

Core level 6 No Worse Fate: Shaken effect can only occur once every 2 seconds.
If "can only occur once every 2 seconds" means it can only affect one monster at a time then the 'every X seconds' should be removed.
It should affect every monster hit with Eldritch Blast.

Core level 12 Inhuman Nature: +25% Fortification and +4 Saving Throws versus Poison and Disease.

Originally Posted by Munkenmo

Getting inhuman nature at core 2 is fine, getting it as my 4th core at level 12 is not...

I agree with Munkenmo, I'd like something else here.

T1 Consume: Consume Life deals poison damage.
Poison damage for consuming life is absurd.
It should be negative energy damage.

T1/T2 Hungry for Destruction: You gain +1/+3/+5 Melee Power, Ranged Power and Universal Spellpower.

Originally Posted by Munkenmo

...too much melee / ranged power.

Should be like Harper Agent Versatile Adept: [+1/+2/+3] Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power.

Or even better, make it one enhancement instead of two, and give us something different in Tier 2.

• T1 Hungry for Destruction: On dealing damage you gain +1 Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power. (Stacks up to 5)
• T2 Feed on Health: When you strike an opponent with your melee attacks, ranged attacks or Eldritch Blast there is a chance equal to half Warlock level for you to gain 30 temporary hit points. This can occur no more than once per 6 seconds.

T2 Sugar Rush.

Originally Posted by Severlin

...Fey based, not demonic and this is supposed to be a creepy nod to that.
That said, if people don't like the name changing it is easy.

I don't like it. Change please.

T3 Dark Feeding: DC of 10 + Character Level + Charisma Modifier. Drain STR, DEX, WIS, INT.
Why low DC 10 instead of standard DC 18?
Ability damage is already worthless and the Insight bonus is not so great that it needs to have a low chance of success.

Originally Posted by Severlin

Charisma would be too powerful as a self contained casting buff.
This is meant to support multi-classing.

So it's multiclass only then?
Warlocks have no use for any of those abilities.

• STR +Carrying capacity (no effect on Warlock combat abilities)
• DEX +Reflex save (no effect on Warlock combat abilities)
• WIS +Will save (no effect on Warlock combat abilities)
• INT +Spellcraft skill (very minimal effect on Warlock combat abilities)

If it's too powerful for Warlock to gain Insight CHA why is it not too powerful for other (multi)classes?

Why no Constitution? The only universally useful ability.

Dark Feeding should be able to drain every ability.

I'd rather avoid rapid charisma changes, so I don't have to put up with umd lag.

I'm not keen on the Sugar Rush name. The ability is pretty cool, though.

Do Greater/Supreme Hunger stack, giving you +200%?

My planned aura-melee warlock is drooling at "Your Flesh Is Weak". Do you expect this to be just a clicky, or SP-activated?

Hmm.. 17warlock, 3 wizard, soul eater, great old ones, some pale master for zombie form, enough in enlightened spirit to get the aura, dark feeding int damage version & consume lifeforce for negative energy healing.. result = a brain-eating zombie with an aura of damage who can also use create thrall to make more zombies. Me likey