Tempest 3 grants another attack (essentially a superior TWF feat).  It is not part of the standard ranger chain.

Any time.

Auran wrote on Feb 7^th, 2010 at 9:14pm:


i presume the main reason they did it was due to the "nerfing" of the tempest ac bonus plus the fact that the capstone gives little, if not no, help to tempest rangers

actually, thats a wrong way to look at it. for most PrCs, they are more or less backloaded. ie assasin, tier 1 not much, tier 2 assassinate, tier 3 vorpal, ie kensai, tier 1 not much, tier 2 +8 str, tier 3 +1 crit range. in effect, most PrCs get more powerful when you MC less. for tempest, its very skewed, tier 1 give +10% melee alacrity +2 AC, tier 2 increases ac bonus to +3, tier 3 increases ac to +4 and gives and extra attack to the sequence. going by the dps view of ddo, this  makes tier 1 and 3 much more valuable than tier 2

so how does this work, going tier 1 tempest allows you to load in tier 2 of another PrC. and thus you get 2 very powerful PrC abilities. if you got teir 3, it allows you to MC 2 levels of another class w/o suffering many penalties, ie 18 ftr -> 20 = loss of 10% melee alacrity capstone, 18 pal -> 20 = loss of weapons of good. 18 rgr -> 20 is the loss of 25% ranged alacrity. given how gimped range is, the inherent benefit is less compared to, ie +1 str, haste boost, 2 feats for 2 ftr, awesome saves, auras from 2 pal, trap skills, umd, haste boost from 2 rog, unarmored wis ac, 2 feats from 2 mnk

the only reason why anyone would got 11/12 rgr is possibly for evasion (which 12/6/2 builds get by taking 2 rog or 2 mnk), strong spells. if you are going 11/12 rgr, then might as well go 18 for more FE bonuses and the extra attack (that 1 attack is actually quite substantial in terms of %)

Auran wrote on Feb 8^th, 2010 at 12:21am:


That's actually kind of funny that your current levels (the unplanned ones) make for the best current DPS combination in the game.  On the other hand, if you'd have planned him you'd have made him much less powerful in normal quests and borderline gimp in raids?   

Demoyn wrote on Feb 8^th, 2010 at 1:09am:


Don't get me wrong, he's a blast to play now and I have thought about reincarnating him, but honestly there isn't really anything I would change (on his current setup) that would warrant the xp grind on him (except I might have taken a monk level instead of barbarian, how dare I make a character Neutral Good) Though the order of levels taken is certainly odd.

As a side note, he could do with a GR, want those 4 build points.

Seneca Windforge wrote on Feb 10^th, 2010 at 2:26am:


the monster build is made for dps via tempest, kensai power surge and fighter haste boost. however, it is also made with a serviceable ac in mind with the help of monk wis ac. if the build dumped wis, with 6 base, +6 item and +2 tome, it can give 14 wis for a +2 mod and with monk centered bonus, net +3 ac. if the player chooses to spend 6 build points for 12 base, one can easily get 20 wis for +6 ac total. if you throw in +4 wis tome, +2 exceptional item, that is a +8 to ac. 8 on the d20 is very significant

Aranticus wrote on Feb 10^th, 2010 at 4:50am:



Even if that nerf happened, monk would still be a very powerful splash. Once all the whining settled down I still think you would see a lot of monk splashes.

Demoyn wrote on Feb 10^th, 2010 at 3:18pm:

I wouldn't be so sure... 2 levels still get you evasion and two feats.  That's like combining the best parts of two fighter levels and two rogue levels.

Obviously I disagree.  Im not saying that monk splashes would be as common, but the splash itself is still very powerful.

Personally at this point I could give a rats ass about most rogue skills. UMD being the major exception. Many people splashed 2 fighter in the past on non evasion builds for the feats, I think evasion with two feats and + to saves is still a good choice.

Obviously it depends on the build.

Disavowed wrote on Feb 7^th, 2010 at 11:14pm:



You relly need to work the main class  backwards from 20 to 12 to make a good decision...

i.e. ranger lose 1 favored (+2 more damage vs favored list) at 20 and capstone, lose tempest III at 18 plus spell slots... I think the enhancement ranger favored damage II is at 13 or maybe 14? ... 4th level spells at 16, spell level durations cap at 15 another favored enemy (+2 more damage vs favored list)... you need to look at all the upper tier enhancements, abilities (spells including slots) reflex save over those early fighter levels etc...

I am at work so cannot put together a comprehensive list ... but you really have to scrutinize each level gain per each level loss and find the level break difference.

i.e. 8 level fighter has most likely pick weapon specialization along with 4 other feats for +2 damage and 2 str point enhancements, haste boost enhancements increase, kensai I ... is 16hp heavier then a 6 levels of ranger has two toughness enhancement I believe at this point?

To really weight how deep to multiclass is best to write them all down side by side, one in reverse order... even then you really have to count the spending of aps as they exhaust.

Quikster wrote on Feb 11^th, 2010 at 10:51am:


as you said it, in the past. The extra feat, capstones changes some things