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What is the gist of the nerfs:
Jun 8th, 2010 at 4:40pm
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PLs go
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #1 - Jun 9th, 2010 at 7:28pm
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THF:
No glancing blows while moving (so twitch attacking has a lower benefit)

TWF:
No certain offhand attacks on certain swings in the attack chain, is now a percentage chance on each mainhand swing to proc an offhand swing. From memory:
No TWF - 20%
TWF - 40%
ITWF - 60%
GTWF - 80%

Tempest 1 improves this by 10%, tempest 2 by another 10%, Monk wind stance improves this by some amount. Tempest 1 also no longer gives the 10% attack speed increase.

Overall:
Abilities like Zeal and Fighter capstone no longer increase attack speed by 10%, they instead add a 'doublestrike chance' of 10%. Doublestrike is basically a chance on each mainhand swing to proc another mainhand swing instantly, I believe with smite, trip, stunning blow etc attached.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #2 - Jun 9th, 2010 at 8:32pm
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Speed is fun.

Slow is not.

Between haste nerf and alacrity nerfs, this has got to feel like slowmo.

What really kills me is that they fixed a (mostly unknown) beneficial bug in the Barb capstone but didn't fix the (widely known) detrimental bug.  Fuck you, Turbine!
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #3 - Jun 10th, 2010 at 2:14am
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The gist:

This is an MMO. It is not DDO.

Whatever we can do to make more cash, we do.

So:
Dumb down the rules
Make it easy for low levels to go up quickly, then once you have them hooked, make the higher levels require stuff from the store.
Nerf stuff so people have to rebuild characters. Quickest way is to pay for a TR.
Put in some Hello Kitty colors. Oh wait, that is some idiot on the forums saying that.  Cheesy



  
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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #4 - Jun 10th, 2010 at 10:09am
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Gist:

D&D is confusing.  Stupid people pay us money.  Less D&D, more stupid people.

Lag sucks.  Speed makes lag.  We don't know how to optimize our code.  Go slow, m'kay?

TWF should be a moneypit.

AC still hardly matters, so THF should not do more damage, because our S&B brethren feel like assholes.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #5 - Jun 10th, 2010 at 11:18am
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Schmoe wrote on Jun 10th, 2010 at 10:09am:
Gist:

D&D is confusing.  Stupid people pay us money.  Less D&D, more stupid people.

Lag sucks.  Speed makes lag.  We don't know how to optimize our code.  Go slow, m'kay?

TWF should be a moneypit.

AC still hardly matters, so THF should not do more damage, because our S&B brethren feel like assholes.



Cheesy
Yes let´s not fix the hardware or the code lets fix something that wasn´t broken.

But you make that sound so much better.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #6 - Jun 10th, 2010 at 1:00pm
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Shade has pretty much posted that the changes are directed at him specifically.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #7 - Jun 10th, 2010 at 1:13pm
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stainer wrote on Jun 10th, 2010 at 1:00pm:
Shade has pretty much posted that the changes are directed at him specifically.


Well if you pick that haircut on your dorf then i understand how you can get your own head stuck that far up your own arse.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #8 - Jun 10th, 2010 at 1:21pm
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stainer wrote on Jun 10th, 2010 at 1:00pm:
Shade has pretty much posted that the changes are directed at him specifically.


Because I'm sure the developers are in awe of his leet dps.  They probably sit around and talk about him in coffee breaks.  I bet they even had a Shade retreat where they discussed how to make him mortal again!
  

"As my windshield melts, and my tears evaporate,
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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #9 - Jun 18th, 2010 at 10:32am
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Schmoe wrote on Jun 10th, 2010 at 10:09am:
Gist:
Lag sucks.  Speed makes lag.  We don't know how to optimize our code.  Go slow, m'kay?



Unfortunately testing showed this was total bullshit and they just wanted to slow down and change combat.  Lag was just a convenient scapegoat...
  

Nevynn wrote on Nov 18th, 2010 at 11:38pm:
Anybody coming to this board expecting anything more sophisticated than a dick joke had better get used to disappointment.


Calvet wrote on Oct 20th, 2011 at 12:18pm:
I just got that impression after you spent 13 pages calling out eladiun for being an interwebs bully when anyone who's been posting on here already knew that.  I mean, he's proud of it and hardly tries to hide that at all.


Quote:
Eladiun is an awful person
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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #10 - Jun 18th, 2010 at 10:41pm
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Eladiun wrote on Jun 18th, 2010 at 10:32am:
Unfortunately testing showed this was total bullshit and they just wanted to slow down and change combat.  Lag was just a convenient scapegoat...

...again (see DA).
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #11 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 1:25am
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As my boobies on the Vault, can I just say this:

Fuck you turbine, fuck you for making me grind 2 TR's on my first TR toon, fuck you for nerfing glancing blows, fuck you for nerfing TWF, fuck you for slowing combat down (again).

Fuck you for not even replying or making a comment on all of this for over 2 weeks in a thread with 150+ pages.

Seriously, fuck you.

Now, who is running ToD and epic DQ tonight?

Just so you all know, my toons on Drama Llama are Felgor, Angryscrews, Splatsplat, Flavoursome.

EDIT: I love the sneaky word conversion...lol
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2010 at 1:27am by Felgor »  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #12 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 2:47am
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Hi Welcome
  

"I'll provide the perspective"
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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #13 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 10:25am
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Felgor wrote on Jun 26th, 2010 at 1:25am:
Fuck you turbine, fuck you for making me grind 2 TR's on my first TR toon, fuck you for nerfing glancing blows, fuck you for nerfing TWF, fuck you for slowing combat down (again).

Fuck you for not even replying or making a comment on all of this for over 2 weeks in a thread with 150+ pages.

Seriously, fuck you.

I like this guy already.

I've been having trouble filling in my spare time and had been considering coming back for a bit... but I know the combat slowdown will drive me absolutely nuts.

What really kills me is that they "discovered" the real problem in a Llama thread earlier this month, thanks to someone doing some studies.  The REAL cause of DPS lag is their artificial bandwidth cap.  US players are capped at 20.5kbps.  Once you start using a weapon with lots of magical effects (or otherwise increasing the amount of data transfer to reach that cap), lag starts kicking in.

Here's the real kicker: not only is Turbine aware of this problem, they have the ability to raise the cap on the fly.  In other words, the utilities to change it already exist.  How do we know this?  Apparently European users do not share the same bandwidth cap.

Here's the thread on the matter: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=253905

And I'll repeat what I said in a post to Turbine when I read that thread: Fuck you, you fucking fucks.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #14 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 10:46am
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There was a follow-up test to the bandwidth issue, they apparently took off the cap and had a group go into the Shroud.  Group was competent enough even with the combat nerfs to do a 1-round part 4.

Everyone reported seeing NO DPS lag.  Their peak receive rate was well over the 20k cap though - most were around 28-29k.

So what does this mean?  The U5 combat nerfs will not fix DPS lag.  It's known that removing/changing the cap in addition to the U5 combat nerfs will.  It's not a big stretch to guess that removing the cap and eliminating the nerfs would probably also fix it.

Now, I don't disagree that melee combat needed to be balanced better, but I think there are better ways of doing it... especially if it is not done with the goal of reducing DPS lag in mind.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #15 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 11:07am
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Strakeln wrote on Jun 26th, 2010 at 10:46am:
There was a follow-up test to the bandwidth issue, they apparently took off the cap and had a group go into the Shroud.  Group was competent enough even with the combat nerfs to do a 1-round part 4.

Everyone reported seeing NO DPS lag.  Their peak receive rate was well over the 20k cap though - most were around 28-29k.

So what does this mean?  The U5 combat nerfs will not fix DPS lag.  It's known that removing/changing the cap in addition to the U5 combat nerfs will.  It's not a big stretch to guess that removing the cap and eliminating the nerfs would probably also fix it.

Now, I don't disagree that melee combat needed to be balanced better, but I think there are better ways of doing it... especially if it is not done with the goal of reducing DPS lag in mind.

The bandwidth issue should have been obvious, imho. At least it should to their developers. I wonder if there is a large cost associated to increasing bandwidth that they are trying to avoid? Or maybe, the current cap was put into place to balance play for people with poor connections? I am going out on a limb on the with connection issue. I guess there could be latency and quality issues, especially in America with our crappy infrastructure.

My point is this issue is/was known to Turbine. What was the reason for not wanting to make a bandwidth change?
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #16 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 11:18am
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The combat changes were never really about reducing lag, they were pretty up front about that in the beginning, the only part that was aimed at reducing lag was coupling the hit check of the offhand swing with the mainhand swing.

The only part I don't really like about the combat changes is the removal of glancing blows when moving, I know it's aimed at twitching, but it really mainly affects people who move during combat which is pretty much everyone, twitching or no, it's part of the combat system, you move around to try to dodge attacks. The TWF changes don't bug me as much, as long as the combat is still fairly fast paced.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #17 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 12:35pm
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Hmmm...increasing bandwidth reduces lag. Who'd've thunk it?  Roll Eyes

Seriously, would it've been THAT hard to increase the bandwidth cap before that test? I mean seriously. The European servers evidently have a higher bandwidth cap (approx 30 kbs?) than the Turbine servers. Would it have been THAT hard for Turbine to compare notes with Codemasters regarding that???

I don't wanna hear anything about "there's only so much bandwidth available" either. Since F2P took off, there's NO reason why the Data Center Turbine uses could not get OC3 (155 Mbps) lines (heck, I'll bet an OC12 line wouldn't be out of the question) hooked up for the DDO servers.
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2010 at 12:36pm by Arkat »  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #18 - Jun 26th, 2010 at 12:54pm
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stainer wrote on Jun 26th, 2010 at 11:07am:
The bandwidth issue should have been obvious, imho. At least it should to their developers. I wonder if there is a large cost associated to increasing bandwidth that they are trying to avoid? Or maybe, the current cap was put into place to balance play for people with poor connections? I am going out on a limb on the with connection issue. I guess there could be latency and quality issues, especially in America with our crappy infrastructure.

My point is this issue is/was known to Turbine. What was the reason for not wanting to make a bandwidth change?


Is not what they want to hear or intend to do. If they checked all the discussions on DA and other issues about Coal and Shroud designed quests. I been telling them bandwidth along with what they're sending in each packet was their main culprit for years... even before they thought up DA and sent it  directly to dev's in PM on forums... never a reply. 

« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2010 at 12:54pm by Emili »  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #19 - Jun 28th, 2010 at 6:33am
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I can't even find the post where I put that forward 2 years ago. I noticed that, on a T-3 connection with 40 ms when I was in DC, it was capped.

I had "suggested" that, since the servers are separated, they could just put some at one site and the rest at another site (effectively increasing the bandwidth if that was a provider limiter).
They tried doing that with the account servers at one site and the game servers at another, but it failed due to other reasons.


Maybe it was because I said their netops group needed to be fired? I also had a comment about how their DBA was full of shit about the database filling up with characters so they capped the number of characters we had (it was when we could get more slots by earning favor - which then got classified as an "exploit"). For space, they could just archive off the thousands of accounts/characters that were not currently paying (all those plat farmers!)

  
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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #20 - Jun 28th, 2010 at 7:49am
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Strakeln wrote on Jun 26th, 2010 at 10:46am:
There was a follow-up test to the bandwidth issue, they apparently took off the cap and had a group go into the Shroud.  Group was competent enough even with the combat nerfs to do a 1-round part 4.

Everyone reported seeing NO DPS lag.  Their peak receive rate was well over the 20k cap though - most were around 28-29k.

So what does this mean?  The U5 combat nerfs will not fix DPS lag.  It's known that removing/changing the cap in addition to the U5 combat nerfs will.  It's not a big stretch to guess that removing the cap and eliminating the nerfs would probably also fix it.

Now, I don't disagree that melee combat needed to be balanced better, but I think there are better ways of doing it... especially if it is not done with the goal of reducing DPS lag in mind.


Pretty elementary you would think. The changes just do not make sense!

Hey let's ask the players for feedback on our ideas, but still proceed despite the outcry! Wooo we are Turdbine, we can fuck it all up coz LOTRO is going FTP for more cash!

Yea, these changes annoy me. Oh well, I guess we will find out how it all goes tomorrow.
  

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Re: What is the gist of the nerfs:
Reply #21 - Jun 28th, 2017 at 5:02pm
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m
  

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