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Madcow430
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #25 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 2:47pm
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stainer wrote on Nov 3rd, 2010 at 2:21pm:
I lr'd and got rid of the battle part. While I have the hp's to stand in with Harry, I wouldn't be contributing to that damage really. I am addressing the SP issue, but with a guild or speed group, I am betting I have enough sp to get through a 1 or 1 1/2 rounder.


Also, I don't know if this is helpful, but I always walk into the Shroud prepared for a 3 rounder.  It's up to the group whether I dig in my bag of tricks or not.  Groups that suck can sit and spin on failure.  Good groups, noob or not, get enough support to make it.  I can easily make that decision by the third portal by this time.  1 rounders in pugland are not common, just sayin' Wink
  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #26 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 2:49pm
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Madcow430 wrote on Nov 3rd, 2010 at 2:40pm:
Stainer:

1. How many HP do you have on your cleric?  The reason I am asking is that if this is a RS cleric you are running with only 1200sp, you likely need to be standing close to the group and let your aura help you out some.  One of the advantages clerics have in there lately is the RS Aura.  Even a shitty aura will help immensely in keeping the squishtastic as well as the 'wtfareyoudoinghere' alive in between your choice of heals.  Your heals will hit you too.  In time, you will get bored in competent groups and find yourself trying to help kill the Pit Fiend.  In borderline groups you'll not be forced to overheal/chug/overheal/chug...  If I remember correctly, you have a tendency to put more hp on toons than I do.  And I like to melee Harry while healing to save boredom.

2. Dude, your getting a Del... er Cleric.  Have your guildies drag you through a couple of norm runs of Amrath content.  That way you have one of the belts with the Sup Ador 8 on it.  That freaking thing is awesome, and I use it as a tool on all of my healing toons.  Even my non heal speccd' bard who gets called on in oh shit moments. 

3. If you are running with your guildies, you know what to expect.  Pugland can be wonderfully amusing and intensely frustrating at the same time.  Expect the no fort 170hp wonders to blame you for not overhealing them.  Because they will.

My preferred method of healing on a FvS is Mass Heal/MCLW/Spot Heal.  As far as picking a target, I agree with the hp check.  Otherwise, just pick a toon with some hp.  Warforged/Dwarven barbs make nice targets.  However, if you are standing with the party don't worry about a target.  The spell radius will hit everyone.

Oh, and Superior Ador 6 clickies work on MCLW/MCMW until you have an Amrath belt.  Or in moments you are low and would otherwise yell, "... run my allies!"


Well I do have a anachric burst silver long sword of pg on my cleric. As soon as I can I am building a sp GS item. My hps are a little over 300. I can remember where at though. I haven't used a +2 con tome yet.

I leveled this guy so quick, I need to spend some time looking at his equipment. Smiley

I appreciate everyone's advice. It has been helpful. If you see my cleric join your group do not be alarmed!
  

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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #27 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 3:01pm
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make a 3k sp pure healing, evocation spec'd FvS, grab a solid 'chanter and 10 dps.

  

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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #28 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 3:03pm
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You might need more hp, or a cloak of ice/fireshield scroll.  300 is about 100hp or so better than what I typically see there on Clerics.  I prefer over 400 due to some room past eating meteor swarm or fireball.  I soloheal it a lot due to the abundance of non surviveable healing builds running that content.

Harry drops... *ding* your other party healer has died, lol.
  
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Madcow430
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #29 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 3:27am
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stainer wrote on Nov 3rd, 2010 at 2:49pm:
Well I do have a anachric burst silver long sword of pg on my cleric. As soon as I can I am building a sp GS item. My hps are a little over 300. I can remember where at though. I haven't used a +2 con tome yet.

I leveled this guy so quick, I need to spend some time looking at his equipment. Smiley

I appreciate everyone's advice. It has been helpful. If you see my cleric join your group do not be alarmed!


If you are running a dwarven cleric, I saw 2 silver holy burst dwarven axes on the AH searching under the text 'silver'  I think both were around 30-55k plat.

Fun choice for those dull moments in competent groups.  Or to scare the shit out of your average pug group, haha...
  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #30 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 6:25am
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This is what I do, but I have about 440 HP and evasion.

Pop an aura, center heals on yourself and go stand in melee.  Hit mass Heal, alternate with burst.
  

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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #31 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 9:44am
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stainer wrote on Nov 2nd, 2010 at 4:04pm:
I am not great equipment wise. I don't have a sp item and I may not even have a +6 wis item. (I have been leveling really fast) I am sitting about 1200 sp. I do have a Superior Devotion V or VI shield and I can get Ardor pots if needed. I am ok, or do I need to grind out some equipment?


In the short term, get a max wis item, and the max SP item you can find on non-bound loot.  Make sure you have the best devotion or potency item you can find on non-bound loot. 

If you got that you should be in decent shape.  Clerics are not really too gear dependent.

Here's some long term gear ideas:

1.  Ring of Thelis from Hound (until/unless you nab the bracers in item 3 r get a ToD item with Archmagi)
2.  Lorrik's Necklace from Hound.  The set with the shield if you can get it. (Necklace will probably get replaced by a ToD Set eventually)
3.  Bracers of the Glacier from VoD  (200 sp item plus the Fireshield clicky and some SP reductions)
4.  Gauntlets of Eternity from Reavers Fate (Healing Lore increasing your crits)
5.  Shroud SP item with Conc Opp and +6 wisdom (Goggles)
6.  Shroud HP item with Air Guard, Earthgrab Guard, Smoke, or Triple Neg for all the immunities.  (cloak or boots)
7.  Radiant Servant ToD set
8.  DT Armor.  I like +5 Resist, GFL (depending on your ToD Belt), Toughness, Heavy Fort as some possible options.  Those last two allow you to still get your Minos Helm benefits and use your helm slot for something else.
9.  Epic Helm of Mroranan. (+7 wis....)
10 Light and Darkness is always a nice item too for a non-meleeing cleric. 

Your SP seems a tad low for your level.  If you are on tonight and want to talk about your feats, enhancments, stats, etc just send me a tell.  Should be on Velania.  If Woodburning wants to kick some ass while we chat, all the better. 

Low SP isnt the end of the world.  It just means more scrolls and pots in most cases.

  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #32 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 10:43am
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Asheras wrote on Nov 4th, 2010 at 9:44am:
In the short term, get a max wis item, and the max SP item you can find on non-bound loot.  Make sure you have the best devotion or potency item you can find on non-bound loot. 

If you got that you should be in decent shape.  Clerics are not really too gear dependent.

Here's some long term gear ideas:

1.  Ring of Thelis from Hound (until/unless you nab the bracers in item 3 r get a ToD item with Archmagi)
2.  Lorrik's Necklace from Hound.  The set with the shield if you can get it. (Necklace will probably get replaced by a ToD Set eventually)
3.  Bracers of the Glacier from VoD  (200 sp item plus the Fireshield clicky and some SP reductions)
4.  Gauntlets of Eternity from Reavers Fate (Healing Lore increasing your crits)
5.  Shroud SP item with Conc Opp and +6 wisdom (Goggles)
6.  Shroud HP item with Air Guard, Earthgrab Guard, Smoke, or Triple Neg for all the immunities.  (cloak or boots)
7.  Radiant Servant ToD set
8.  DT Armor.  I like +5 Resist, GFL (depending on your ToD Belt), Toughness, Heavy Fort as some possible options.  Those last two allow you to still get your Minos Helm benefits and use your helm slot for something else.
9.  Epic Helm of Mroranan. (+7 wis....)
10 Light and Darkness is always a nice item too for a non-meleeing cleric. 

Your SP seems a tad low for your level.  If you are on tonight and want to talk about your feats, enhancments, stats, etc just send me a tell.  Should be on Velania.  If Woodburning wants to kick some ass while we chat, all the better. 

Low SP isnt the end of the world.  It just means more scrolls and pots in most cases.



I really don't see what the fuss is about the Lorrick's Set. I tore my hair out getting it for my cleric (40 Hounds for the damn shield) and now both pieces sit in my bank. Necklace has Wisdom VI and Wizardry VI on it, both will be replaced by Con-Op and Bracers of the Glacier, respectively, and it's not worth using up the slot for just efficient metamagic, if you want that badly enough, get it on DT. And oh boy! The Shield helps your Turn attempts! We all know how useful turning is in this game! And the set bonus can be surpassed by putting Greater Devotion VIII on a ToD ring (personally I don't think all 3 set items is worth it, and it's only another 10%, so meh). Why even bother for a shield on a cleric anyway?

Gauntlets of Eternity can be replaced by a Greater Arcane Lore item which will affect all your spells, not just healing. Ring of Thelis, replaced by Bracers. There's no point in grinding for gear that can be easily replaced by other gear, why bother? If you happen to get it on the way, sure, but all the Hound gear for a cleric can be surpassed by other gear, so why bother running the Hound at all these days?

He can make up for low SP by getting items that regen those SP for him: Spell Storing Ring, Bauble, Vile Blasphemy, Torc/Con-Op...
  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #33 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 5:15pm
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Sirea wrote on Nov 4th, 2010 at 10:43am:
I really don't see what the fuss is about the Lorrick's Set. I tore my hair out getting it for my cleric (40 Hounds for the damn shield) and now both pieces sit in my bank. Necklace has Wisdom VI and Wizardry VI on it, both will be replaced by Con-Op and Bracers of the Glacier, respectively, and it's not worth using up the slot for just efficient metamagic, if you want that badly enough, get it on DT. And oh boy! The Shield helps your Turn attempts! We all know how useful turning is in this game! And the set bonus can be surpassed by putting Greater Devotion VIII on a ToD ring (personally I don't think all 3 set items is worth it, and it's only another 10%, so meh). Why even bother for a shield on a cleric anyway?

Gauntlets of Eternity can be replaced by a Greater Arcane Lore item which will affect all your spells, not just healing. Ring of Thelis, replaced by Bracers. There's no point in grinding for gear that can be easily replaced by other gear, why bother? If you happen to get it on the way, sure, but all the Hound gear for a cleric can be surpassed by other gear, so why bother running the Hound at all these days?

He can make up for low SP by getting items that regen those SP for him: Spell Storing Ring, Bauble, Vile Blasphemy, Torc/Con-Op...


I agree about the Lorriks set.  The ToD sets own the neck spot on my divine casters.  It was great a year or two ago, but now is meh.  But it's a good holding set until you get ToD items.  Lower ML too for the TR's.

I forgot about the Bauble, SS Ring, etc.  Those are great to have. 

As for turning, I have always thought that it was broken.  Then two nights ago I was running Madstone on my TR'd FvS.  We had a cleric in the party.  Jarom from The Free Companions.  He turned every undead giant skele in the quest except one.  On the first turn attempt.  No fail.  All 6 of the casters and all the melee ones in the cave and outside.  He was level 13. 

He is a 3 time TR Cleric with the Radiant Servant PrE.  Probably had a sacred item and some enhancement points and or feats, but even so.  It was rocking.

I did some math.  +6 from 3 TR, +3 from Cleric Imp Turning + 2 sacred item = +11 to effective turning level.  That means he could effect between a 20 HD and 28 HD undead at level 13 depending on dice roll.  And he could effect beteween 33-44 HD of undead per turn attempt.  With the RS PrE he's destroying them.  No frightening them and they run off.

Didn't look broken to me.
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2010 at 5:16pm by Asheras »  
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Epoch
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #34 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 5:33am
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Asheras wrote on Nov 4th, 2010 at 5:15pm:
I agree about the Lorriks set.  The ToD sets own the neck spot on my divine casters.  It was great a year or two ago, but now is meh.  But it's a good holding set until you get ToD items.  Lower ML too for the TR's.

I forgot about the Bauble, SS Ring, etc.  Those are great to have. 

As for turning, I have always thought that it was broken.  Then two nights ago I was running Madstone on my TR'd FvS.  We had a cleric in the party.  Jarom from The Free Companions.  He turned every undead giant skele in the quest except one.  On the first turn attempt.  No fail.  All 6 of the casters and all the melee ones in the cave and outside.  He was level 13. 

He is a 3 time TR Cleric with the Radiant Servant PrE.  Probably had a sacred item and some enhancement points and or feats, but even so.  It was rocking.

I did some math.  +6 from 3 TR, +3 from Cleric Imp Turning + 2 sacred item = +11 to effective turning level.  That means he could effect between a 20 HD and 28 HD undead at level 13 depending on dice roll.  And he could effect beteween 33-44 HD of undead per turn attempt.  With the RS PrE he's destroying them.  No frightening them and they run off.

Didn't look broken to me.


It is not broken, hasn't been for years.  The problem is, people do not want to spec for it, or stop grinding the more popular gear for boosts to their undead turning. 

I have always had a turning cleric, they are great while leveling up.  After you are done with all the undead quests though, it's kinda pointless to remain as such.
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #35 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 9:04am
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Epoch wrote on Nov 5th, 2010 at 5:33am:
I have always had a turning cleric, they are great while leveling up.  After you are done with all the undead quests though, it's kinda pointless to remain as such.


Good point.  Once you clear Necro 4, there's no use for it in the Vale, Reavers, IQ, Dreaming Dark, or Amrath.  It's a pain to spec for and it runs out of usefulness at level 16.  Not a really awesome combination.

It probably would rock in Shadow Crypt and Wiz King, though.  The two best leveling quests in low-mid levels.
  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #36 - Nov 6th, 2010 at 6:53am
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Asheras wrote on Nov 5th, 2010 at 9:04am:
Good point.  Once you clear Necro 4, there's no use for it in the Vale, Reavers, IQ, Dreaming Dark, or Amrath.  It's a pain to spec for and it runs out of usefulness at level 16.  Not a really awesome combination.

It probably would rock in Shadow Crypt and Wiz King, though.  The two best leveling quests in low-mid levels. 



Yeah people think firewall is great.  But whats better, kiting mobs or making them all disappear instantly?

I prefer the latter Smiley

Great way to speed through a cleric TR as well.  As most of the gear to speck for it is low level.
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #37 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 11:37am
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I hjealed my first shroud run Sunday. It was a speed run. When i joined I let them know that hjealing from me was sporadic at best, and there was probability that they would all die.

I had quicken on in 4/5 and was switching between mclw/mcmw/mhjeals. I "think" I can turn quicken off and go with mclw/mcmw and keep people alive. I had to drink a couple of pots, mostly because I was over hjealing.

I was sharing duties with a FvS and I think he carried the load. Smiley
  

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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #38 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 7:53pm
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stainer wrote on Nov 8th, 2010 at 11:37am:
I hjealed my first shroud run Sunday. It was a speed run. When i joined I let them know that hjealing from me was sporadic at best, and there was probability that they would all die.

I had quicken on in 4/5 and was switching between mclw/mcmw/mhjeals. I "think" I can turn quicken off and go with mclw/mcmw and keep people alive. I had to drink a couple of pots, mostly because I was over hjealing.

I was sharing duties with a FvS and I think he carried the load. Smiley

If you are using the MCLW and MCMW method then yes you can turn quicken off as you're just wasting SP with it on. Once you try or switch to the Mass Heal method though turn Empower Heal off and Quicken on.
  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #39 - Nov 9th, 2010 at 9:32pm
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Don't listen to them, Stainer.  Never turn off quicken, even when buffing. 

Also, pots are for drinking.  I like to fuck with people and start chugging mana pots in unexpected places, such as on the way to VoD.  You can hear people getting all nervous about the run.  For extra flavor, use half your mana bar buffing yourself after hitting the shrine in VoD.  People really start freaking out then.

Grin
« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2010 at 9:34pm by Strakeln »  

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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #40 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 9:43am
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Strakeln wrote on Nov 9th, 2010 at 9:32pm:
Don't listen to them, Stainer.  Never turn off quicken, even when buffing. 

Also, pots are for drinking.  I like to fuck with people and start chugging mana pots in unexpected places, such as on the way to VoD.  You can hear people getting all nervous about the run.  For extra flavor, use half your mana bar buffing yourself after hitting the shrine in VoD.  People really start freaking out then.

Grin


Mana pots are like gold for me, Mr. Has A Bank Character Full of Goodies. Smiley

I got my perfect shard btw. Time to make Dreamler a Shintao.
  

Nilazgrc: For all those familiar with loreseekers/sentinels.... Dont run with Stainer.... Guy is a tool. Black list his toons.
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JDollar wrote on Apr 25th, 2013 at 4:47pm:
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #41 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 10:42am
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Asheras wrote on Nov 5th, 2010 at 9:04am:
Good point.  Once you clear Necro 4, there's no use for it in the Vale, Reavers, IQ, Dreaming Dark, or Amrath.  It's a pain to spec for and it runs out of usefulness at level 16.  Not a really awesome combination.

Amrath: the cinderspawns can be turned. other than that not much use.
Dreaming Dark: two of the prequests have turnable undead. one is a rare spawn, the other is a named skellie-giant (dispel his caster lvl 7 deathward first).
IQ: finding the path's end fight is easier on elite if you throw down some turns when the spectres pop up.
Vale: I dont recall any undead at all.

I wouldnt say "devote your cleric to turning", but carrying an eternal faith item and having seek eternal rest on your spell list are not big sacrifices for the lolz-undead value of turning miniboss encounters.

On the subject of healing shroud:
I vary what i do and how i heal depending on if its solo healing or duo/trio, and the difficulty. If i'm solo healing I use quickened Heal Mass whenever its off cooldown, and i toss a mass cure or two in if the group is particularly squishy and/or some people are low on HPs. Duo/Trio I spam 2-3 mass cures as 'arry is coming down and people are sorting their positions out, then i settle to throwing out a mass cure dependant every cooldown, dependant on difficulty. For laggy runs, and/or during blades i pray and spray mass cures. For elite duo, i begin with spamming mass cures, and watch the other healer. When i get a feel for their spell timing I cast quickened heal mass every time it comes off rotation and aim to begin my cast as their casting animation reaches the "bring hands up" bit.
  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #42 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 7:34pm
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What's with all these noobs?

If you mass cure, quicken will eat up your sp.  I prefer mass heal.  I never turn off my quicken.  For shroud 4/5, you can almost just spam mass heal with small delays depending on the other healer and how much damage your melee are taking.  If you go the mass cure, watch out for overhealing, let the melee take some damage.

Let squishy melee die.  It teaches them a lesson and saves you sp!

VoN 6, Shroud, Hound, ToD 1/2 are all basically, mass cure or quickened mass heal
ToD 3, VoD, DQ are all basically alternate Heal scroll and Heal spell.
  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #43 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 7:58pm
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stainer wrote on Nov 10th, 2010 at 9:43am:
Mana pots are like gold for me, Mr. Has A Bank Character Full of Goodies. Smiley

I got my perfect shard btw. Time to make Dreamler a Shintao.

Shintao is fucking insane once you learn how to use it.  I need a lot more practice.  It's pretty crazy when you have the following all on different timers:

- stunning blow
- stunning fist
- ranged stun (shintao thing)
- quivering palm
- jade tomb (name prolly incorrect)

Five moves to incapacitate or instakill an enemy.  Then for added fun:

- Banishing strike (name incorrect, too lazy to look up)
- Smite (nice lil damage booster)
- Jade strike (on crit will put monster in a tomb of jade, otherwise is a nice debuff)

All of this on top of the top tier fire, air, and water stance strikes... holy fuck Creakin is a busy little DPS machine now.  After he's stunned everything in the room, of course.
  

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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #44 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 10:18am
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Ok. I am no longer worried about healing shroud.

I was in part 4 with some guildies and some puggers. I had my mass cures centered on a ftr.

Ding - Ding Both casters went down. Harry was throwing those fire ball things all over the place. I took one to the face.

Blades are moving in. Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding. The fighter I was centered on cut and ran. Leaving everyone to die. I am to slow to noitce. The other healer takes two successive fireballs to the face and she is down.

It was me, chicken shit ftr, a rogue, and (I think) one more ftr. The dead people are talking about a reform, but huzzah, we pulled it off!

I drank pots like Lindsay Lohan on a four day bender.



  

Nilazgrc: For all those familiar with loreseekers/sentinels.... Dont run with Stainer.... Guy is a tool. Black list his toons.
kmack can drive the tractor.
The Vault donates to charity.
JDollar wrote on Apr 25th, 2013 at 4:47pm:
Stainer likes tractors
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Sirea
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #45 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 10:22am
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stainer wrote on Nov 11th, 2010 at 10:18am:
I drank pots like Lindsay Lohan on a four day bender.


That's something to be proud of now?  Huh
  
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stainer
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #46 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 10:23am
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Sirea wrote on Nov 11th, 2010 at 10:22am:
That's something to be proud of now?  Huh


I guess not. I was able to do it though.
  

Nilazgrc: For all those familiar with loreseekers/sentinels.... Dont run with Stainer.... Guy is a tool. Black list his toons.
kmack can drive the tractor.
The Vault donates to charity.
JDollar wrote on Apr 25th, 2013 at 4:47pm:
Stainer likes tractors
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Milton
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #47 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 11:05am
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stainer wrote on Nov 11th, 2010 at 10:18am:
Ok. I am no longer worried about healing shroud.

I was in part 4 with some guildies and some puggers. I had my mass cures centered on a ftr.

Ding - Ding Both casters went down. Harry was throwing those fire ball things all over the place. I took one to the face.

Blades are moving in. Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding. The fighter I was centered on cut and ran. Leaving everyone to die. I am to slow to noitce. The other healer takes two successive fireballs to the face and she is down.

It was me, chicken shit ftr, a rogue, and (I think) one more ftr. The dead people are talking about a reform, but huzzah, we pulled it off!

I drank pots like Lindsay Lohan on a four day bender.


Nice job... a good tip is to cast Mass Protections after he Fireballs... keeps the party from going down too fast.

Other than that, you seem to be well on your way. Best way to learn how to play a cleric proper, is to play your cleric... and find out what works for you. Cheesy
  
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #48 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 11:07am
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Milton wrote on Nov 11th, 2010 at 11:05am:
Nice job... a good tip is to cast Mass Protections after he Fireballs... keeps the party from going down too fast.

Other than that, you seem to be well on your way. Best way to learn how to play a cleric proper, is to play your cleric... and find out what works for you. Cheesy


I did figure out quick who has a low hp build, and which wf didn't take healers friend. :p I just end up throwing heal scrolls on them.
  

Nilazgrc: For all those familiar with loreseekers/sentinels.... Dont run with Stainer.... Guy is a tool. Black list his toons.
kmack can drive the tractor.
The Vault donates to charity.
JDollar wrote on Apr 25th, 2013 at 4:47pm:
Stainer likes tractors
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Re: Healing Shroud
Reply #49 - Nov 11th, 2010 at 11:40am
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Eventually you will just let them die.
  
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