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Looks like they're killing crit-fishing (Read 4308 times)

scraap Ex Member	Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Nov 15^th, 2010 at 12:54am	Print Post
	Haven't had the chance to verify for mself yet, but the weeping on lam seems to indicate they're swapping crit chance for spells from crit or not on cast to crit chance per tick per mob while they also introduce the amped ice storm. Guess the folks who's solution to 'it's resistant to fire, so hit it with more fire' are gonna have a tough time of it for a bit. In other news, acid and elec, and debuffs still suck from an utility vs SP standpoint, so meh.


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kitsune_ko Titan Demolisher Offline Halfling Pali-Rogues FTW! Posts: 380 Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #1 - Nov 15^th, 2010 at 1:08am	Print Post
	Well, we knew it was coming, it was actually supposed to be implemented a while ago, guess its for real this next time. On the plus side, the wands of ice storm I have been saving should be a blast now. Kit

	"Shiny stuff comes and goes; XP is forever." 2008-10-15: Full frontal Nerdity
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Krythan Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 19 Joined: Aug 17^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #2 - Nov 15^th, 2010 at 3:30pm	Print Post
	Eye of the Titan is going to be so much more fun now. Waiting, and monsters w/ crazy elemental resists are my 2 favorite things.


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Gammata Korthos Resident Offline Shit yeah. Posts: 27 Joined: Jul 9^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #3 - Nov 16^th, 2010 at 7:49pm	Print Post
	Confirmed (at least for Llamaland). However, Ice Storm is awesome now. Not only does it hit twice for about the same damage as Firewall, each tic also has a separate chance to crit; meaning that the Ice part can crit without the bludgeoning part critting, and vice versa. You can also be lucky, and have both crit at the same time (for some very tasty damage).

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scraap Ex Member	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #4 - Nov 16^th, 2010 at 9:18pm	Print Post
	Gammata wrote on Nov 16^th, 2010 at 7:49pm: Confirmed (at least for Llamaland). However, Ice Storm is awesome now. Not only does it hit twice for about the same damage as Firewall, each tic also has a separate chance to crit; meaning that the Ice part can crit without the bludgeoning part critting, and vice versa. You can also be lucky, and have both crit at the same time (for some very tasty damage). Asked over there, but just to doublecheck: is it per-mob, or per wave? The explicit answer was per mob, but most other chatter seems to indicate per-tick.


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Gammata Korthos Resident Offline Shit yeah. Posts: 27 Joined: Jul 9^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #5 - Nov 17^th, 2010 at 12:23pm	Print Post
	Quote: Asked over there, but just to doublecheck: is it per-mob, or per wave? The explicit answer was per mob, but most other chatter seems to indicate per-tick. I actually didn't check that. I'll try and have a look later tonight, and see what I can find out.

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scraap Ex Member	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #6 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 9:51am	Print Post
	Finally got enough time squeezed in to check. 1 fireball vs 6 mobs (so no chance of it being kiting) saw 2 get crit, so per-mob, looks like. One of those subtle distinctions that can have interesting consequences.
	« Last Edit: Nov 25^th, 2010 at 9:52am by »

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Strakeln Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Lumberjack Posts: 12345 Joined: Jun 27^th, 2009	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #7 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 11:34am	Print Post
	Still not clear. Sounds like it may be per-mob-per-tick.

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scraap Ex Member	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #8 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 11:36am	Print Post
	Strakeln wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 11:34am: Still not clear.� Sounds like it may be per-mob-per-tick. Yeah, pretty much the conclusion I came to mself after a few repeats of the test. (fireball being 1 tick, 6+ mobs being per-mob, some of which crit)
	« Last Edit: Nov 25^th, 2010 at 11:45am by »

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Emili Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1241 Location: here Joined: Jun 30^th, 2009	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #9 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 1:03pm	Print Post
	Strakeln wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 11:34am: Still not clear.� Sounds like it may be per-mob-per-tick. That is is... is determined each time right before the damage is to be rolled. i.e. six mob running thru a fw tick one ... each one has a different chance to be crit for that particular tick, come tick two ... the same.
	« Last Edit: Nov 25^th, 2010 at 1:07pm by Emili »
	\|IMaj7� �\|vm7 I9 \|IV6� �\|ivm7 bVII9 \| IMaj7 vim7 \| iim7 V13 \|III7+� VI9 \| iim9� V13 \|IMaj7� �\|vm7 I9 \|IV6� �\|ivm7 bVII9 \|IMaj7 vim7 \|iim7 V13 \|I6� ivm7� bVII9 \|I69� �\| Bonheur dans la vie, c'est d'aimer et d'etre aim� et quand s'en va, l'espoir fuit.
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Zippo Hooters Offline Ooooh what's this button do? Posts: 3903 Location: not hell but it's a local call Joined: Apr 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #10 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 2:01pm	Print Post
	Emili wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 1:03pm: That is is... is determined each time right before the damage is to be rolled. i.e. six mob running thru a fw tick one ... each one has a different chance to be crit for that particular tick, come tick two ... the same. Which is strange since the Turbine devs and "community specialists" went on this dps calculations are the cause of lag tour back during the summer. They spent how much time and effort convincing everyone that it was for the better because it will get rid of the lag and make the game enjoyable again then they take away the "cause" of lag from dual wielding players and and another one by making firewall have to make that many more calculations before each tick of damage. Turbine you need to make up your mind.
	« Last Edit: Nov 25^th, 2010 at 2:01pm by Zippo »

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Emili Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1241 Location: here Joined: Jun 30^th, 2009	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #11 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 2:52pm	Print Post
	Zippo wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 2:01pm: Which is strange since the Turbine devs and "community specialists" went on this dps calculations are the cause of lag tour back during the summer. They spent how much time and effort convincing everyone that it was for the better because it will get rid of the lag and make the game enjoyable again then they take away the "cause" of lag from dual wielding players and and another one by making firewall have to make that many more calculations before each tick of damage. Turbine you need to make up your mind. You took them seriously? It was not the number of calculations - am sure the servers could handle that, but the delivery of the positioning and speed of character in the instances server/client sync which is the root cause of lag. The change of the combat system was create a closer gap within the player base.
	« Last Edit: Nov 25^th, 2010 at 3:04pm by Emili »
	\|IMaj7� �\|vm7 I9 \|IV6� �\|ivm7 bVII9 \| IMaj7 vim7 \| iim7 V13 \|III7+� VI9 \| iim9� V13 \|IMaj7� �\|vm7 I9 \|IV6� �\|ivm7 bVII9 \|IMaj7 vim7 \|iim7 V13 \|I6� ivm7� bVII9 \|I69� �\| Bonheur dans la vie, c'est d'aimer et d'etre aim� et quand s'en va, l'espoir fuit.
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Nevthial Dragon Raider Offline Cundalini wants his hand back Posts: 206 Location: G-Town!! Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #12 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 2:53pm	Print Post
	Zippo wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 2:01pm: Which is strange since the Turbine devs and "community specialists" went on this dps calculations are the cause of lag tour back during the summer. They spent how much time and effort convincing everyone that it was for the better because it will get rid of the lag and make the game enjoyable again then they take away the "cause" of lag from dual wielding players and and another one by making firewall have to make that many more calculations before each tick of damage. Turbine you need to make up your mind. It's all a PR scam when you're talking about big business. They needed to dumb down DDO and at the same time make the newbs not feel so left behind. It's one of the reasons we have a massive surge of epic items and the new "uber" low level items in the newly released content.

	http://my.ddo.com/guild-ghallanda-calamitous_intent/� RL Friends & Wife Guild http://my.ddo.com/guild-ghallanda-the_most_wanted/ PvP and Raiding Guild
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Zippo Hooters Offline Ooooh what's this button do? Posts: 3903 Location: not hell but it's a local call Joined: Apr 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #13 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 3:40pm	Print Post
	Emili wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 2:52pm: You took them seriously? It was not the number of calculations - am sure the servers could handle that, but the delivery of the positioning and speed of character in the instances server/client sync which is the root cause of lag. The change of the combat system was create a closer gap within the player base. For the record I didn't actually take them seriously, I was just pointing out the sheer hypocrisy and speaking out of both sides of their mouth that Turbine is doing.


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Combat Wombat Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 334 Joined: Aug 28^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #14 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 3:42pm	Print Post
	I thought they made it quite clear it was all about the physics checks and the dps nerf was basically just for the lulz cause they were in there changing shit anyways and got bored. Are you perhaps a moron? Edit: oh and on topic the crit changes are great my RS is quite pleased and my sorc doesn't care.
	« Last Edit: Nov 25^th, 2010 at 3:43pm by Combat Wombat »

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Zippo Hooters Offline Ooooh what's this button do? Posts: 3903 Location: not hell but it's a local call Joined: Apr 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #15 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 4:03pm	Print Post
	Combat Wombat wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 3:42pm: I thought they made it quite clear it was all about the physics checks and the dps nerf was basically just for the lulz cause they were in there changing shit anyways and got bored. Are you perhaps a moron? Edit: oh and on topic the crit changes are great my RS is quite pleased and my sorc doesn't care. I don't recall them saying anything along those lines. I may have missed it but the "there are too many calculations at one time" defense I saw them running with regularly. Project much?


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kitsune_ko Titan Demolisher Offline Halfling Pali-Rogues FTW! Posts: 380 Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #16 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 7:01pm	Print Post
	Zippo wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 2:01pm: Which is strange since the Turbine devs and "community specialists" went on this dps calculations are the cause of lag tour back during the summer. They spent how much time and effort convincing everyone that it was for the better because it will get rid of the lag and make the game enjoyable again then they take away the "cause" of lag from dual wielding players and and another one by making firewall have to make that many more calculations before each tick of damage. Turbine you need to make up your mind. Haha, this is funny to me because I got I got rep-ass-raped a while back on the other forum for stating exactly this point in a topic discussing coming update changes. I also asked how much of an effect this is going to have for example in a raid where you have 3 casters all throwing out firewalls to burn off the trash-mobs. No-one had a comment on that. Thats a hell of a lot of additional calculations being added now. I am pretty much of a mind now that Turbine does random shit occasionally just to see what happens. Crit-checking undoes and then some whatever little supposed benefit the melee nerfs gave lag reduction. Kit

	"Shiny stuff comes and goes; XP is forever." 2008-10-15: Full frontal Nerdity
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Combat Wombat Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 334 Joined: Aug 28^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #17 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 7:57pm	Print Post
	Zippo wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 4:03pm: I don't recall them saying anything along those lines. I may have missed it but the "there are too many calculations at one time" defense I saw them running with regularly. Project much? lol gee I don't know the original post trbine talked about the twf changes said exactly that from the beginning? everything else is just all the trolls and asshats getting people like you all worked up into a frenzy till you start spewing dumb shit too


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Zippo Hooters Offline Ooooh what's this button do? Posts: 3903 Location: not hell but it's a local call Joined: Apr 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #18 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 8:32pm	Print Post
	Combat Wombat wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 7:57pm: lol gee I don't know the original post trbine talked about the twf changes said exactly that from the beginning? everything else is just all the trolls and asshats getting people like you all worked up into a frenzy till you start spewing dumb shit too Do I look like I'm worked up into a frenzy you dumb cunt? GFY until you can figure out the difference between going pear shaped and pointing out irony. As for your physics check, yes they were doing a physics check for each hand on each hit. That was increasing the number of calculations (hence the "irony" of them changing firewall to something that would add more calculations, is that easy enough for you to get this time idiot boy?) that they had to do and that is part of what they blamed the lag on, now if you had half a brain in your head you would be able to put that together instead you come on here acting like a dumb cunt.
	« Last Edit: Nov 25^th, 2010 at 8:55pm by Zippo »

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Combat Wombat Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 334 Joined: Aug 28^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #19 - Nov 25^th, 2010 at 10:33pm	Print Post
	lol says the fuckwit that doesn't get the difference between a physics calculation and simple damage calculation they are about as far from each other as possible and if you are gonna cry like a fucking baby about turbine at least get your head out of your ass and get your facts straight so you do it right


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Zippo Hooters Offline Ooooh what's this button do? Posts: 3903 Location: not hell but it's a local call Joined: Apr 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #20 - Nov 26^th, 2010 at 2:45am	Print Post
	Combat Wombat wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 10:33pm: lol says the fuckwit that doesn't get the difference between a physics calculation and simple damage calculation they are about as far from each other as possible and if you are gonna cry like a fucking baby about turbine at least get your head out of your ass and get your facts straight so you do it right And as I pointed out earlier that you need to learn the difference between crying and pointing out the irony you dumb fucking cunt. Until you can figure out the difference you need to gfy. Try again when you actually have a valid point. You fail idiot boy. Quote: Some people may have noticed that problems occur most often when there are many monks or two weapon fighting characters that are loaded with many on-hit effects attacking en masse.� These characters currently perform many attacks very quickly, and each attack is pretty heavy performance-wise.� Rather than attack the problem by changing common heavy-load equipment, Currently a single two weapon fighting attack makes a physics detection check with your main hand, followed by a second detection check for your off hand (roughly 0.15 seconds after the first one). Instead of making multiple physics checks, all two weapon fighting attacks (weapons or unarmed) would now make a single check for your main hand attack, and would �piggyback� on that detection check and have a chance to proc (trigger) an off-hand attack based on the number of two weapon fighting feats (or related enhancements) you possess. Off-hand attacks would have a chance to proc on any main hand attack now, instead of being predetermined on certain attacks. Having more TWF feats increases the % chance of proccing an off-hand attack. Eladrin Like I said yes it is technically a physics check but what your idiot brain can't figure out is those checks were "causing lag" because of the number of calculations. That would be DPS calculations fuckstick, now feel free to suck it at anytime. GFY
	« Last Edit: Nov 26^th, 2010 at 2:58am by Zippo »

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scraap Ex Member	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #21 - Nov 26^th, 2010 at 3:05am	Print Post
	Here's the difference there, from someone that's actually dealt with physics systems 'professionally' (If you can call a crappy commission professional) at times. When you do a physics based raycast from point A to point B, you go over everything in a given node (say, 1 room) and at a minimum check it's position and size against the two pairs of 3 floats. So that's 4 32 point integers (assuming you're just checking vs a radius. Then you gotta filter out a rotated AABB which is 2 more if it's in that double-check range) * every single thing thing there that is interact-able or not assuming you're ignoring completely whether anything might be moving frame to frame. A magical crit or not? Generate a percentage per mob and a second for damage. Of course, they still fail horribly since their ultimate solution after being proven wrong on the notion that that was what was causing clients to get updated way too far past the time when things were actually going on was cranking up the bandwidth rather than optimizing the data sent to get more out of it faster. TLDR: slam em for being fucksticks in the area they're being fucksticks about or GFY kthanks.


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Hi Welcome King of Trolls Offline Drama chips... now in Argonnessen Apple flavor! Posts: 2759 Joined: Aug 14^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #22 - Nov 26^th, 2010 at 7:51am	Print Post
	kitsune_ko wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 7:01pm: Haha, this is funny to me because I got I got rep-ass-raped a while back on the other forum for stating exactly this point in a topic discussing coming update changes. I also asked how much of an effect this is going to have for example in a raid where you have 3 casters all throwing out firewalls to burn off the trash-mobs. No-one had a comment on that. Thats a hell of a lot of additional calculations being added now. I am pretty much of a mind now that Turbine does random shit occasionally just to see what happens. Crit-checking undoes and then some whatever little supposed benefit the melee nerfs gave lag reduction. Kit But... if they don't invalidate people's builds at random, they'll sell less TRs!

	� �� Epoch wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 5:15am: When people bring in their personal lives, it is all fair game.� This board promotes trolling.� If you bring something up, expect it to be used against you at a later date if not immediately.� You want to bring up personal shit, well, that is your problem. Eladiun wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 1:46pm: If one fails to understand the nuances of elite level trolling they would falsely interpret posts meant to fan the flames as support.
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Schmoe Epic Poster Offline One world, one soul Posts: 4219 Location: A chair Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #23 - Nov 26^th, 2010 at 10:30am	Print Post
	Hi Welcome wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 7:51am: But... if they don't invalidate people's builds at random, they'll sell less TRs! I have cannily thwarted their plans by gimping my toons a priori.

	"As my windshield melts, and my tears evaporate, Leaving only charcoal to defend - Finally I understand the feelings of the few, Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend, we were all equal in the end." -Waters
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Hi Welcome King of Trolls Offline Drama chips... now in Argonnessen Apple flavor! Posts: 2759 Joined: Aug 14^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Looks like they're killing crit-fishing Reply #24 - Nov 27^th, 2010 at 2:59pm	Print Post
	Schmoe wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 10:30am: I have cannily thwarted their plans by gimping my toons a priori. And when they ungimp your gimps?

	� �� Epoch wrote on Mar 14^th, 2012 at 5:15am: When people bring in their personal lives, it is all fair game.� This board promotes trolling.� If you bring something up, expect it to be used against you at a later date if not immediately.� You want to bring up personal shit, well, that is your problem. Eladiun wrote on May 15^th, 2012 at 1:46pm: If one fails to understand the nuances of elite level trolling they would falsely interpret posts meant to fan the flames as support.
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