Soul wrote on Apr 1^st, 2011 at 2:02pm:


English is my first language. 

Don't care if it's your second language.  Even if it was your third, a WF melee FvS is not an A+ build in any language.
 
Here's your report card:

DPS: B-   (only because you have eSoS and Claw set is it even this high)
CC Casting: F-  (The only person you are landing Hold Person on is yourself.  While you watch your B- DPS)
Dmg Casting: C
Healing: C+

Overall Grade: C+

Can't believe you have a Fighter and you wasted the eSoS and claw set on your WF FvS. 

You talk about wasting larges on Min II weapons.  You spent at least 12-15 flawless red scales in value (eSoS scroll, Bracers scroll, Gloves Scroll) in gearing this toon to get meh results. 

Sad.  Schade. Triste.

stainer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2011 at 11:46am:


Fixed for ya!

PS, WTF's a guy gotta do to get a Deathward from a fucking Divine caster these days  ....................

Asheras wrote on Apr 4^th, 2011 at 10:54am:


add survivability to that list. and then remove the grades that are irrelevant to the play stile of a melee FvS. It might bump up the grade a little.

stainer wrote on Apr 4^th, 2011 at 11:46am:


Big difference between what you are doing and this build.  The Sirgog, Soul "I wanna pretend my FvS can do as much DPS/tanking as a Fighter, Pally, or Barb"  guy who dumps wis and cha completely, doesn't take any feats or enhancements that are not DPS related and doesn't have any gear for healing is the build getting a C+.

You've run with my FvS.  She is a melee/healing FvS.  She does acceptable DPS for her to contribute in most raids and epics and she can solo most any content in the game.  She is also a very strong healer.  Better than my pure 20 cleric was before I reincarnated him.  But then, she has the stats, the feats, the enhancements, and the gear for it. 

WF FvS can be really cool when done with some balance.  I think some people just take it too far.  But, it's their build and their time and their game.  If they enjoy it, more power to them.  But to call it an A+...that's a bit much.

Asheras wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:12am:


I agree. The whole argument amount DPS this and that is redonc. My Pure Barbarian and Pure Fighter can put out a shit load of DPS. I know this and I can see it when I play them. My Pure Monk, my Temp II/Ken I mutt, and my 12ftr/6pal/2mnk 1/2ing d-mark user are a lot more fun to play. My bard, cleric and my sorc that I TR'd into a FvS all have a place too.

Sometimes I think people get blinded by one play style because it is all they know. You can see it in monk haters sometimes. They can't get past the complexities of playing that class. It isn't just rage/frenzy/frenzy. It actually requires more than that.

Asketes wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:27am:


Fo rizzle.

Max gear WF fvs does around 65% of the dps of Max gear eSOS fighter (or barb).

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=299620

I have verified the numbers for FVS vs. THF fighter with additional in game testing using Sobrien 0% for 69K HP in epic claw. (~4:55 to kill on my friend's near max geared fvs vs. 2:50 posted by Krythan in axers dps challenge).

Pure DPS FVS (Max str, Dump Wis/Cha) loses NOTHING in the way of healing vs a cleric/ or wis/cha specced FVS as long as  you take the maximum healing enhancements (can skip the crit chance/multiplier ones) and empowered healing feat.

I can solo heal epic DQ2 or any other epic on my wf fvs.

And yes, I would take a max STR wf fvs over a max geared fighter or barbarian in a tod or any other epic.
WHY? because you lose a bit of dps (65% vs 100%) but you gain 200% healing capability making your chance of failing extremely low.

Also, dps fvs is better than a pure caster fvs for most raids because he's beating on the boss adding his extra dps in addition to healing, while your pure caster fvs does nothing but heal.

However, I personally do agree that "soul survivor" is a retarded build.  A tank for a crappy PUG group that didnt think to get a real tank. Wasting AP and gear slots for threat generation at the expense of real dps.

Asheras wrote on Apr 5^th, 2011 at 10:07am:


Since I love flogging dead horses. Absolutely I would take that FVS.
Assuming 1 caster 1 healer and 10 DPS spots.
10 pure dps doing Y dmg each = 10 Y
9 pure dps + fvs = 9 + 0.65 = 9.65 Y

You lose 3.5 % overall dps and get 200% healing capability.

Quote:



All that gear sound like you are overcompensating for being a piss poor player.

crazydamage wrote on Apr 6^th, 2011 at 6:45am:



A couple things:

1) By taking Empower Healing and Healing enhancments you are moving the melee FvS build from a "Pure DPS machine" Melee FvS build to a melee/healing FvS build.  The build you are thinking of probably also has a solid potency item.  I have no issue with this build.  I like that build a lot in fact.  Velania is basically that build.  (minus the being WF part).  I agree, she gives up very little in DPS to get the ability to heal like a champ.

2)  You don't get 100% of the healing and 100% of the dps capability of the toon simultaneously. 

Take eDQ2.  No way your WF FvS is producing 100% of the healing capability of a dedicated healer and also fully getting the 65% DPS.  You don't swing when casting.  Your DPS would be significantly diminished. 

Ofc that is clearly quest dependent.  On an eVon6, where you rotate healers, the melee/healing FvS can do full DPS when the other healers are healing and reduce DPS and heal when it is their turn in the rotation.

Regardless, I'm not arguing that an FvS that is willing to heal is an unwelcome addition.  My whole point was predicated on them not healing anyone.  And, yes, that is the player, but when the player doesn't take empower healing and doesnt spend AP on enhancements and doesnt wear a devotion/potency item then it becomes the build's problem too. 

My whole point is this:  A "pure dps" FvS build is not A+ because it doesn't do anything at the A level.  Healing is not as strong as it could be with a different build.  DPS is not as strong as it could be with a different build.  Other casting is virtually non-existant. 

I'm not saying it's not FUN AS HELL to play.  If Soul was giving it an A+ on the fun to play scale, I'd have no problem with that.

Well at a certain point there simply are no more dps feats or enhancements worth taking, so basically in my opinion even "pure wf dps dvs" includes max healing enhancements.
(other wise what the hell did he blow all his AP on, racial and wf toughness IV or something?)

Becuase there simply is no other way to spend those enhancements on anything that would increase your dps (might change now with angel of vengeance).

Similarly, what feat could you possibly take instead of empowered healing. Weapon focus for +1 hit?? i dont really think so.

Asheras wrote on Apr 7^th, 2011 at 2:39pm:


I don't know about all of that. The dumping wis seems fine on my WF build. I don't do tons of offensive casting on my cleric, so it is no different for me on the FvS. I just get to swing more while I heal.

Azuphle wrote on Apr 7^th, 2011 at 3:33pm:


Non-buffed, standing 607 HPs for a WF FvS (one Toughness feat) is VERY nice.


Azuphle wrote on Apr 7^th, 2011 at 3:33pm:


Yes. Lord of Blades WF FVS 20 with DR enhancements and Adamantine Body has DR 15/Adamantine...makes it VERY survivable.