Vissarion wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 3:55pm:


Specific answers in red.

I run a 14/6 tempII/KensaiI dorf. Pretty sturdy and can solo a bunch of content. AC is meh, but I could see getting it higher in some different ways. I went 14 ranger for FOM. An elf build with scimitars would be good too.

I am not sure about the 18/1/1 builds. Jaxx has one that is pretty nice.

In any event, it is fun to pew pew pew occasionally.

Vissarion wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 3:55pm:


My ranger self-heals and the only things that he has are Ardor clickies (I recently switched to potions because I don't want to mess with weapon swapping) and Healing Amp.

Human 30% healing amp + Paladin Past Life 5% + Ship 10% + Levik's Bracers 20% = 1.3*1.05*1.1*1.2 = 180% healing.

Cure Serious Wounds spell cast on myself does over 100 HP of healing and that's plenty to keep myself out of trouble.  I might have to dance around a little in order to cast repeated Cure spells, but that's fine if I'm soloing.

Maximise OR Empower Healing would significantly boost his per-cast healing numbers, but would lower his HP/SP efficiency. 

I only have a Concordant Opposition item on him currently, but that's because I don't farm ADQ on him.  He's pretty much parked in the Shroud now.

Schmoe wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 4:23pm:


Mostly poor wording on my part. I'm assuming Khopesh, but wasn't sure what races I should be considering (Human seems to be the standard exploiter, but Dwarf/Halfling/Horc all seem nice). The rapier thing was an aside, but I can see how it would muddle my main question.

I had forgotten about FOM, though, which is an important consideration. Not really interested in finesse or combat expertise, so I guess that rules out AC as well.

Maybe like a traditional exploiter shell (18/1/1) with minimal Dex for dodge that acts like a Kensei with casting/evasion?

I always forget to pewpewpew. I have a gimpy Tempest rogue with the Silver Longbow and half the time I forget to keep myself stocked on arrows.

Siver wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 5:17pm:


I understand that.  I didn't understand his question as it was worded.

Siver wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 5:30pm:


Yeah, the thought had occurred to me, mainly in the form of Dwarf with DA. Not a ton of interest in going with either of the -2 Con races, though. Too used to playing WF, I suppose.

I have an Exploiter, and I really dig the character. Gear's a pain, but otherwise so far he's lived up to what I wanted. Baring in mind I've only done a single Genesis Point as anything past Reaver's Refuge, so that might discredit all I'm about to say.


1. Is Tempest still a viable DPS option for endgame? Or did the nerfs do too much damage?

A) With a MinII and LitII I'm happy. But it depends on if you think Amrath is end game.

2. Is Tempest III worth it? Seems kinda meh to me, so was thinking maybe something like 7 Rogue/1 Barb, but not sure how valuable the stuff I'd be missing would be.

A) Depends if you want the TempestIII +1 AC boost, 1 less penalty for TWF, and 5% chance at doublestrike. I know my next exploiter probably wont. In which case I'm thinking 15rng/3rog/2mnk. That should give me a few more skill points, 1d6 SA, and a feat.

3. How viable is the self-healing route? I know that it takes some feats (Maximize/Quicken), and that it requires some gear like Torc. Is it worthwhile before you get the awesome gear?

A) It's worth it. I didn't like CE so Empower Healing plus an Ardor clicky could be very nice.

4. AC worth it, or fuck it?

A) Very worth it with the grind. It took me a MinII with +4 insight, Icy, Chattering Ring, and Mabar cloak but it keeps me safe from most trash. Up to Genesis Point on norm, mind you.

5. Khopesh is the obvious weapon, but what races could be in the running? Would it be gimping it too much to run with rapiers (mainly for a change of pace, but not wedded to it).

A) I don't know how much Khopesh's are the obvious answer. For anything without a racial weapon sure. Anything with I'd probably go with that.

6. Anything else I'm missing?

A) At least from an exploiter view,

UMD. I swapped CE for SF UMD and I should be a greensteel away from no failing anything. That's with the Delara's necklace, Spyglass, +6 CHA item, and GH or Human Versitility with points left over. That was with a starting CHA of 8 and a supreme tome at lvl7.

An INT of 10 on a human at start lets you max ranks on UMD, DD, Search, Spot and Balance/OL with a rog lvl. You'll need a +2 tome and some catch up if you take a level in monk

Manyshot with a STR damaging bow butchers beholders and living spells.

All and all a mostly Ranger can be a very well rounded character. Good DPS, a bunch of skills points, and some decent spells (Rams Might, Resists, Barkskin, Longstrider, Jump).

He's a secondary/support character though, I feel. Not top DPS, not the best buffs, and you really need to multiclass to gain access to the best skills.

And again. Amrath on normal is as far as I've gotten him. Erndhart on Argo if that helps discredit anything I've just typed.

Siver wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 5:30pm:


Schmoe wrote on May 26^th, 2011 at 12:05am:



You two can get a room now.  Way to fucking polite for this forum.  GFY   

JoJI wrote on May 25^th, 2011 at 11:39pm:


Hmm. Some interesting stuff to think over. Doesn't sound like AC will be for me on this character, as I have zero interest in grinding for a Chattering Ring. 

Maybe I will try out a 12 Ranger/7 Rogue/1 Barb build. Not that much worse DPS with aggro than an Exploiter, but much better without aggro. Seems promising.

Or maybe go 1 Monk and pick up SF:UMD, as I do like the idea of an easier no-fail heal scroll.

How do people gear their TWF rangers? I threw together a rough idea of gearing, but it seems like if you go with the Ravager set, it can be hard to slot in +5 Resistance, which seems important what with the evasion and all.

you wont have the AC to tank raid bosses unless you have tons of gear, tomes, and possibly more than 32 pts.

couple good options for rangers
18rgr/1ftr/1mnk human dodge, mob, spring attack, quicken, empower healing, improved crit pierce or slash (choice of rapiers vs scimitars), maximize, OTWF, toughness, pa. str based. good trash AC plenty of self healing and decent dmg. could also strictly use min2s and drop IC. or use min2 khops and replace IC with khop prof.

18rgr/1rg/1mnk human essentially same meat feats replace metas with umd skill focus or khop proficiency. pick up max umd and trap skills.

12rgr/7rg/1mnk or ftr (+/- 1 bab lose wis AC bonus) this build is very good too picking up higher tiers of haste boosts, SA, max umd trap skills. tbh this build does more damage as a halfling with tod bursts using unarmed in wind stance. even than khops. tempest bonuses work with unarmed. youre not doing a lot of base damage with the wraps but the sheer amount of attacks with tod bursts and offhands + SA adds up a lot.

JoJI wrote on May 26^th, 2011 at 10:16pm:


Pretty much what I do.  My ranger's AC will never be worth much, so I put guards and +5 resist on a DT outfit.

someguy wrote on May 26^th, 2011 at 12:21pm:


You'll never be able to do Horoth (though I have been forced to do it a few times when a main-tank died), but anything else in the game can be done in a 32 point life.

Bigjunk wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 1:17pm:


Thanks for weighing in, Junk. A couple questions:

1. Are the attack bonus problems for 12/7/1 solely due to missing the Tempest Set+Tempest III (+4 attack, if I do my math right)? I know the BAB is lower, but seems like sneak attack accuracy, and either Madstone or DP clickies would help mitigate it.

Alternatively, would having something like Epic Raven's Sight + Epic Gem of Many Facets be an adequate remedy? Or would gearing become problematic with that setup?

2. When you say 'classic exploiter', do you mean the fairly even stat distribution, ala EinarMal? I have zero desire to grab CE, so Empower Healing would be an option, but was also thinking of taking advantage of the fact that Tempest only requires a 13 Dex, and do something like Max STR, minimum required DEX, High CON, and extra points into Int for skills. I assume that layout would fubar some of the traditional perks of an Exploiter, no?

My thoughts on AC have pretty much made it into a "nice to have while leveling" thing, and not something to really bother with beyond that. I have a Dex/Wis TR monk who will get to an 80 AC if she so much as sneezes, but it's pretty depressing to think that will be functionally useless in epics.