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Cale
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Re: Rangers
Reply #25 - May 27th, 2011 at 7:44pm
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Bigjunk wrote on May 27th, 2011 at 1:17pm:
Tempest III is a double-edge sword . . . I have two 18/1/1 rangers both STR-based.   I have two friends who TR’d into Ranger 12/rogue 7/Monk 1 and the biggest difference is they can’t hit a fucking thing and I don’t have problems at all.  12/7/1 splits have better “spreadsheet” DPS but they lack to-hit which fucks them in epics.  The biggest advantage of Tempest III is the lack of to-hit penalties and the +3 benefit from the Tempest ToD set.  Sure, the other splashes do more damage on paper but you aren’t doing shit for DPS if you aren’t hitting.

This is where I stopped reading.
You realize that the HUGE difference in to hit bonus that you're talking about is a WHOLE +1, right?
... and that rogue sneak attack enhancements make up that difference completely....?
The to hit difference is non-existent for the most part.

Do people actually wear the Tempest set?
« Last Edit: May 27th, 2011 at 7:49pm by Cale »  

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Terebinthia
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Re: Rangers
Reply #26 - May 27th, 2011 at 7:53pm
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This is all very interesting reading.

I have a capped exploiter, followed the classic build and it's human khopesh but I have CE rather than combat expertise. Terebynthia on Khyber on myDDO if you want to rip her to shreds...

At the mo I haven't ground for anything - I have a prot ring and that's about it. I seem to remember wandering around having done absolutely nothing her standing AC is 48, hardly exciting.

This has been fine for what I've been using her for, but I can see a path while I'm TRing my main of slowly improving my other toons. What quick fixes would you do to her? She has Nyokos band and that's it from TOD at the mo. Need to tier III my lit IIs, I know, but there's always other stuff to do. Should get a chance once I've built some HP gear for my soon to be Shroud capable paladin...
  
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Re: Rangers
Reply #27 - May 27th, 2011 at 10:03pm
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Cale wrote on May 27th, 2011 at 7:44pm:
This is where I stopped reading.
You realize that the HUGE difference in to hit bonus that you're talking about is a WHOLE +1, right?
... and that rogue sneak attack enhancements make up that difference completely....?
The to hit difference is non-existent for the most part.

Do people actually wear the Tempest set?



Junk is about the last person I would second guess when it comes to rangers, he really does know his shit.

  

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Semper
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Re: Rangers
Reply #28 - May 27th, 2011 at 11:08pm
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Bigjunk wrote on May 27th, 2011 at 1:18pm:
You'll never be able to do Horoth (though I have been forced to do it a few times when a main-tank died), but anything else in the game can be done in a 32 point life.


I tanked horoth when my ranger was a 32 ptr 40 plus times before I started his completionist journey he had plenty of hps and plenty of ac and made a healers job easy so I'm not sure why you think this and he was a str based ranger .. the build was 12/6/2 ranger/fighter/monk tempest II / stalwart
« Last Edit: May 27th, 2011 at 11:08pm by Semper »  
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Blank_Zero
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Re: Rangers
Reply #29 - May 28th, 2011 at 12:01am
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If you wanna see a good build for an ac tank ranger, look up williace on khyber....

Has an 87 ac I believe, with no chattering right still. He went 12 ranger, 6 fighter, 2 monk. Elf with scimmies. I think he said he can hit 100 ac raid buffed, and I've watched him hold aggro through claw set barbarians....

He may be my gimpy guildie, but some of his toons are ok I guess Smiley
  
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Semper
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Re: Rangers
Reply #30 - May 28th, 2011 at 12:08am
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I have a 12/6/2 ranger/paly/monk ac/hate build atm which has tanked and can tank every raid boss in game right now and hold agro just fine , as I have already stated i had a fighter mix before that was awesome as well both are or were 32 ptrs at the time or are now and have plenty of hps to do there job and can do enough dps to keep the agro np and can reach 85+ ac with power attack , I don't even take CE
  
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Intervention
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Re: Rangers
Reply #31 - May 28th, 2011 at 2:05am
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A few things to add here is to not bother with Tempest set there are three other sets I can think of off the top of my head that will be more efficient for you:  Ravager, Kyosho's, and Encrusted.

As far as the too hit on the Tempest III vs. a Tempest II + rogue splash is really no difference at all.  The enhancements from the rogue sneak attack accuracy is going to catch up with the Tempest III.

The only thing you'd have to worry about in that case is keeping up your DP scrolls, but that shouldn't be a problem in the first place as you should be doing that with an 18/1/1 split anyways.
  
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Vissarion
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Re: Rangers
Reply #32 - May 28th, 2011 at 9:43am
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Intervention wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 2:05am:
A few things to add here is to not bother with Tempest set there are three other sets I can think of off the top of my head that will be more efficient for you:  Ravager, Kyosho's, and Encrusted.

As far as the too hit on the Tempest III vs. a Tempest II + rogue splash is really no difference at all.  The enhancements from the rogue sneak attack accuracy is going to catch up with the Tempest III.

The only thing you'd have to worry about in that case is keeping up your DP scrolls, but that shouldn't be a problem in the first place as you should be doing that with an 18/1/1 split anyways.


Well, the Tempest set doesn't compete with the Ravager/Encrusted set, but I'm wondering why it wouldn't be desirable over the Shintao set? The Shintao set provides +2 attack/+2 damage, but the Tempest set provides +3 attack/+1-4 slashing damage if one is a Tempest III. Is there something I'm missing here?
  

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Epoch
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Re: Rangers
Reply #33 - May 28th, 2011 at 9:47am
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Vissarion wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 9:43am:
Well, the Tempest set doesn't compete with the Ravager/Encrusted set, but I'm wondering why it wouldn't be desirable over the Shintao set? The Shintao set provides +2 attack/+2 damage, but the Tempest set provides +3 attack/+1-4 slashing damage if one is a Tempest III. Is there something I'm missing here?


Hmm, I wonder what it could be?
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Blank_Zero
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Re: Rangers
Reply #34 - May 28th, 2011 at 3:30pm
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Vissarion wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 9:43am:
Well, the Tempest set doesn't compete with the Ravager/Encrusted set, but I'm wondering why it wouldn't be desirable over the Shintao set? The Shintao set provides +2 attack/+2 damage, but the Tempest set provides +3 attack/+1-4 slashing damage if one is a Tempest III. Is there something I'm missing here?


That extra 1-4 damage is not affected by your weapon type, meaning its still subject to Dr. That makes it useless against anything with any sort of Dr.

Kyosho's ring adds 2 damage to your base damage total, meaning it is affected by the weapon type.

If the tempest set added to base damage, I'd already have it equipped :p
  
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Vissarion
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Re: Rangers
Reply #35 - May 28th, 2011 at 6:20pm
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Quote:
That extra 1-4 damage is not affected by your weapon type, meaning its still subject to Dr. That makes it useless against anything with any sort of Dr.

Kyosho's ring adds 2 damage to your base damage total, meaning it is affected by the weapon type.

If the tempest set added to base damage, I'd already have it equipped :p


Oh, wow, that's pretty stupid item design, then. I had always assumed that it worked like the Brawling Gloves piercing damage, since that just adds 1-4 damage regardless of DR. Had no idea that the 1-4 slashing damage was negated by DR.

In which case, then the Shintao set really does seem dramatically superior.
  

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Epoch
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Re: Rangers
Reply #36 - May 28th, 2011 at 11:41pm
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Vissarion wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 6:20pm:
Oh, wow, that's pretty stupid item design, then. I had always assumed that it worked like the Brawling Gloves piercing damage, since that just adds 1-4 damage regardless of DR. Had no idea that the 1-4 slashing damage was negated by DR.

In which case, then the Shintao set really does seem dramatically superior.


Game mechanics, fun stuff.  I figured that since you were part of the silverish dragons you knew that.  They used to be pretty knowledgeable about that stuff awhile ago.  Are they still active? I hardly ever see you guys around anymore.
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Glenalth
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Re: Rangers
Reply #37 - May 29th, 2011 at 12:02am
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Epoch wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 11:41pm:
Game mechanics, fun stuff.  I figured that since you were part of the silverish dragons you knew that.  They used to be pretty knowledgeable about that stuff awhile ago.  Are they still active? I hardly ever see you guys around anymore.


They may have died of old age.
  
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Epoch
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Re: Rangers
Reply #38 - May 29th, 2011 at 12:57am
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Glenalth wrote on May 29th, 2011 at 12:02am:
They may have died of old age.



I wouldn't make an order of around dragons if they didn't expend my life beyond old age.  That is like serving some mortal claiming to be closer to God then the rest of humanity.
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Vissarion
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Re: Rangers
Reply #39 - May 29th, 2011 at 9:57am
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Epoch wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 11:41pm:
Game mechanics, fun stuff.  I figured that since you were part of the silverish dragons you knew that.  They used to be pretty knowledgeable about that stuff awhile ago.  Are they still active? I hardly ever see you guys around anymore.


Like I said, rangers are the one class I don't know much about, so sue me.

OSD is active, but we've had some turnover in older members lately as they've been trying out other games that the OSD community is involved in.
  

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Razcar
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Re: Rangers
Reply #40 - May 30th, 2011 at 10:27am
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Bigjunk wrote on May 27th, 2011 at 3:09pm:
One would think?  I don’t have the toons myself so I can’t say for certain.  I’ve made a conscious effort to get my to-hit as hit as possible (Epic Spectrals, Tempest set, madstone, etc . . .) and they simply might not be geared as well.  One of them was an 18/1/1 in his past life and said he didn’t have a problem then but does now.  He did just TR and epics AC’d got raised by about 4 so that also could account for it.

I did this - TR:d from 18/r1/m1 to 12/rx/mx. I haven't noticed a worse to-hit - as mentioned, the BAB is 17 instead 18. And if you do not have aggro you'll boost your to-hit with Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II for a +1 higher to-hit than a Exploiter would have. Of course you will loose two F.E. mob types, but that's -2 from F.E Attack II on those. Not much. And you will loose FoM and one rank F.E. Damage and Defense. But you gain some S.A. damage, and if you're a little used playing Rogues you can make that work nicely for you, as well as the sweet Haste Boost.
  
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Re: Rangers
Reply #41 - May 31st, 2011 at 9:33am
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if youre going 12rgr/7rg/1mnk go unarmed and save yourself some larges. higher dps anyhow than even khops and higher to hit unless you somehow managed to fit in otwf. ddo forums search prodigy unarmed for more info. its a very high dps build. need tod bursts to be truly effective though.
  
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Blank_Zero
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Re: Rangers
Reply #42 - May 31st, 2011 at 12:58pm
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someguy wrote on May 31st, 2011 at 9:33am:
if youre going 12rgr/7rg/1mnk go unarmed and save yourself some larges. higher dps anyhow than even khops and higher to hit unless you somehow managed to fit in otwf. ddo forums search prodigy unarmed for more info. its a very high dps build. need tod bursts to be truly effective though.


Higher than Khopesh? hmmm....maybe on 100% Fort...otherwise, the crit profile on Pesh's rocks it out. I've noticed the difference between my Monk and my Blitz. on the Abbot/Shroud Portals, my monk is by far and away better DPS. everything else, my Blitz wins out.

Although another good example of this is the Unarmed Assassin Builds (18/19 rogue and 1 monk/ 1fighter/1monk).
  
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Re: Rangers
Reply #43 - May 31st, 2011 at 1:40pm
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If I could ever pull a Shintao ring (seriously, in HUNDREDS of ToDs my rangers don't have them) I'd use it situationally.  My human has 4 Tempest rings and my Elf 2, different Imbues for what they're doing.

Regarding the Horoth thing, I like having enough HP to laugh off a disintegrate, very tough to do that on a ranger.  My human double-madstoned breaks 600 but it's hard to do double-madstone when you need boots of anchoring Smiley
  
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Bigjunk
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Re: Rangers
Reply #44 - May 31st, 2011 at 1:43pm
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Vissarion wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 6:20pm:
Oh, wow, that's pretty stupid item design, then. I had always assumed that it worked like the Brawling Gloves piercing damage, since that just adds 1-4 damage regardless of DR. Had no idea that the 1-4 slashing damage was negated by DR.

In which case, then the Shintao set really does seem dramatically superior.



It is NOT affected by DR.
  
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Re: Rangers
Reply #45 - May 31st, 2011 at 1:51pm
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someguy wrote on May 31st, 2011 at 9:33am:
if youre going 12rgr/7rg/1mnk go unarmed and save yourself some larges. higher dps anyhow than even khops and higher to hit unless you somehow managed to fit in otwf. ddo forums search prodigy unarmed for more info. its a very high dps build. need tod bursts to be truly effective though.


I'd like to see the numbers for this, they spelled out anywhere?
  
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someguy
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Re: Rangers
Reply #46 - May 31st, 2011 at 2:05pm
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http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258272&highlight=unarmed+prodigy

a bit old but no dps changes to classes have been made that i know of since then. dont think any loss of auto crit changes anything and it may even gain some dps how helpless works now? it would probably be better as a horc now than halfling. pretty neat build i played it one life and i ripped everything ti shreds. i had a rogue past life in there though instead of extend. stunning blow may not be as good now end game with that build either. not that it was ever that impressive
  
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Vissarion
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Re: Rangers
Reply #47 - May 31st, 2011 at 2:21pm
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Bigjunk wrote on May 31st, 2011 at 1:43pm:
It is NOT affected by DR.


Good to know. Thanks for the clarification.

someguy wrote on May 31st, 2011 at 9:33am:
if youre going 12rgr/7rg/1mnk go unarmed and save yourself some larges. higher dps anyhow than even khops and higher to hit unless you somehow managed to fit in otwf. ddo forums search prodigy unarmed for more info. its a very high dps build. need tod bursts to be truly effective though.


I already have three unarmed builds; two pure monks, one of which is on the TR train, and a Godhand Half Orc. Not really interested in leveling another one, especially since the new crafting and lack of silver wraps really fubars unarmed builds vis-a-vis other classes.

That, and I can't imagine the Prodigy is actually better DPS than dual khopeshes. I'd need to see the numbers compared in the linked post to a similarly twinked out Khopesh user to believe that.
« Last Edit: May 31st, 2011 at 2:23pm by Vissarion »  

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Bigjunk
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Re: Rangers
Reply #48 - May 31st, 2011 at 2:28pm
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I think the Ravager set is something else that needs to be factored in regarding the 12/7/1 and un-armed, that 2d6 a swing that won't work unarmed.
  
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Bigjunk
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Re: Rangers
Reply #49 - May 31st, 2011 at 2:30pm
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someguy wrote on May 31st, 2011 at 2:05pm:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258272&highlight=unarmed+prodigy

a bit old but no dps changes to classes have been made that i know of since then. dont think any loss of auto crit changes anything and it may even gain some dps how helpless works now? it would probably be better as a horc now than halfling. pretty neat build i played it one life and i ripped everything ti shreds. i had a rogue past life in there though instead of extend. stunning blow may not be as good now end game with that build either. not that it was ever that impressive


It looks like nonsense to me, as I said in the above post the Ravager and better crit-rage weapons should leave un-armed in the dust.  I use un-armed against undead and that's about it.   I've seen a few of these in action and I'm not impressed.
« Last Edit: May 31st, 2011 at 2:31pm by Bigjunk »  
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