while im no ddo math guru, i cant argue what youre saying nor would i probably anyways. but those guys in the thread discussing it ARE ddo math gurus and notable builders and dps calculators. while they worried it may not be intentional that tempest offhand bonuses works with unarmed they were still acknowledging its potential if it does work. just sayin i played it and it was absolutely insane. i pulled aggro off all kinds of tanks unintentionally with as much -threat i could get and i didnt even have the good tod rings lol. worth a try either way. two simple feat swaps make the transition from unarmed to khop if you already had some made.

Bigjunk wrote on May 31^st, 2011 at 3:15pm:


This.

also, Ravager set wouldn't work with Unarmed anyhow. My monk has to use Crusty.

AtomicMew wrote on May 31^st, 2011 at 5:04pm:


Are you talking about wraps?

I dont see how that's any worse than including +4 tomes, epic marilith chains or epic SS like so many builds I see posted. 

I even stated that lack of GS equivalents is the biggest problem with wraps.

I don't know if unarmed beats khops or not, but the calculator doesn't include DR by default.  A better/more realistic comparison might be:

metalline of greater bane wraps vs. min II's or holy silver greater bane khops

AtomicMew wrote on May 31^st, 2011 at 5:43pm:


Crafting is easy enough, I'll have +4 Holy Burst Silver of GLOB weapons on all my toons in about 2 weeks at the rate I'm going.

They still don't beat lightnings against trash.

right and something about 100% offhand strikes.

Rans some new calc with the appropriate Fudging for a !2/7/1 . . .

40 STR -  should be able to get more but this is a decent number for a non- Half-orc (human for the Extra Sneak of Shadows feat).

Khopesh has:
-  Shintao
-  Ravager
-  2 more STR for not having to put bursts on ToD rings
-  Numbers crunched for Lightning II and +4 Holyburst of GLOB (best thing craftable)

Handwraps has:
-  Shintao
-  Frenzied Berzerker
-  Holy and Shocking bursts on ToD rings
-  DPS Calc'd fudge for 100% off-hand STR and 10% increase in DPS do to the un-accounted for attack speed.

Both have epic charged gauntlets and Sneak of Shadows PL feat (advantage goes to hand wraps her do to the number of swings).  It's a 3 minute fight so Sneak of Shadows is on the whole time.  Here's what I'm getting for 12/7/1s . . .

+4 Holy Silver of GLOB
582.46 0% fort
450.94 50% fort Devil DR

Lighting II Khopesh      
615.67 0% Fort      
429.25 50% fort, DR 15 (wouldn't use above normal anyway)

+4 Holy Silver of GLOB with holy and Shocking burst ToD rings
597.05  0% fort      
491.04  50% fort Devils.

So handwraps wins against Harry/Sulu/Horoth but Lighting II wins against trash (Same with rapiers).  You also don't have to put bursts on your ToD rings and 450 Devil-DR DPS is VERY respectable (beats a full-retard maxxed Barbarian with a Devil's Ruin ESoS). 

Handwraps is a good choice for the 12/7/1 but I'd stay with blades as the primary weapon.  Radiance weapons are much better with large crit-ranges, my friend's rapier user has +4 Flame-touched WoPs that absolutely destroy anything in non epic.  It's close enough that it's a matter of personal preference.

18/1/1 are better off not using wraps, numbers don't favor them.

And no fudging is needed . . .  I'm just too stupid to select "Unarmed" from the fighting style, though it did it automatically when you selected that as the weapon.