The basics are enough to blitz it. You'll have HP and saves equal to or better than the non casters before you actually use any spells, and DC fuck you or lose effects aplenty. Your only problem will be losing init, but 1: That's true of anyone, 2: You can end the battle on your turn, 3: If you can't, the other casters in your party can. It will be very boring and one dimensional, but you can do it.

As for that adventure path it will try to distract you with pointless, meaningless bullshit but it is just that - pointless and meaningless.

Just wondering where these mega-increases to spell DCs are, because apart from a couple of situational ones in the core book (Infernal sorcs getting +2 to charms), I don't see it.

Hi Welcome wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 12:53pm:


That would still have a very significant cost to ones sanity.

Oakianus wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 6:40pm:


Point. some people love to hate things.

Epoch wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 8:30am:


I think Trousertrout took over your account!

Oakianus wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 6:40pm:


Says the guy whose name literally translates to stick up ass.

Fun fact for you there Oakie. While your Dischordian fueled trolling plays the rest of this board like a lute, I can see right through your amateurish trolling efforts, being as I am the King of Trolls. I know that you're here not because you are defending the undefendable, but simply to troll and as such I will simply leave you knowing that I am laughing at your expense. You are nothing to me, and you are nothing.

Krull wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 7:31pm:


Easy.

First, race. Half the races give +2 to the stat of your choice, the other half give +2 to 2 preset stats and -2 to a third preset stat. Suffice it to say you'll take something with +2 to your casting stat, and that's +1 DC.

Second, feats. Everyone gets 3 extra feats. However non casters suffer from deflation, such that even with the extra feats they still get less mileage out of their feats. Caster feats are as strong or stronger, so more feats = more feats. Thus you will use those extra feats on Spell Focuses that you could not otherwise take, and that's another +1 or +2 DC.

Third, items. Since the primary limiting factor of crafting was removed, you will get access to more powerful stat boosting items sooner, which means that you will raise your primary casting stat sooner and that of course means more DCs.

Fourth, class features. There's various things all over the place that raise DCs of different things, and you will of course stack them on for even more DCs.

Fifth, metamagics. Pathfailure added this neat little metamagic called Persistent Spell. Despite having the exact same name as a 3.5 metamagic feat, its function is drastically different - instead of making short term buffs worthwhile, so you can boost your defensive stats enough to actually matter, they make it so you get a two for one special on your offensive spells. Cast one and they have to pass two saves, or they lose. Making someone make two saves and have to pass both of them is functionally equivalent to a DC increase of 4 or 5 points by itself. Combined with all the other stuff, it's about +8-9 DC.

So you're a level 10 Sorcerer. You have all the obligatory stat boosters, and you have a Lesser Rod of Persistent Spell. You cast Slow. The encounter must make 2 DC 25 Will saves or lose. Suffice it to say they will not be winning all that often, especially since Pathfailure has went out of its way to strip any and all forms of defense out of the game as concepts. And if they do get lucky, that's what your second, third, and fourth casters are for.

An equivalent 3.5 character doing the same thing is only forcing one DC 21 Will save, and is going after higher saving throws due to the long list of 3.5 only things that protect you from being insta gibbed in this way that do not exist in Pathfailure. To achieve results even remotely similar you'd have to be a Snowcaster, which requires far, far more investment and still comes out to be quite inferior.

JC wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 12:31am:


So does Pathfailure. What is your point? Just look at this clown:

Xatasha wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 8:09pm:


Blind and actively delusional. Just like Godh and Snootch, really. But then again he's a basketweaver, so if you're expecting him to do anything other than fail for the amusement of his betters (everyone) then you are doing it wrong. Of course for the same reason that makes him Pathfailure's target audience, as it is full of people that make even those paragons of DDO stupidity look like top tier powergamers.

Which brings me to the one, singular good thing about Pathfailure. It snatched up a good number of the bad players, so that I don't have to deal with them at my table.

JC wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:34am:


I think he is a closet pathfinder player

JC wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:34am:


Hi Welcome

Unlike you fucktards (that would be pony boy and his basket weaving bitch), I understand things before hating them. Pathfailure is something that had early potential and quickly self choned, and has never recovered. And is often the case with such things, the haters understand it better than the people that erroneously think it is worth anything, as evidenced by Xatasha's flat out wrong posts regarding it.

It still sucks balls.

Cleavon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2011 at 5:13am:



You should play 2.0.  It is the best, always.

The difference between whether you find 3.5 or Pathfinder more fucked up depends upon what type of gaming group you have and what type of DM you have.

If you were a powergamer with a shitty DM, then Pathfinder is the one that's fucked up.
If you were gaming to have fun instead of gaming to win, or if you have a good DM, then 3.5 is the one that's fucked up.

Squelch wants to blame PF for the fact that his gaming group wants to WIN D&D and the DM of their game doesn't know how to stop them from doing under the different rules.

Epoch wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2011 at 5:36am:


I actually have the most experience with Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd edition. 

I started in on that at like, 13 maybe.  Played that until 3.5 came out, then waffled between the two for a year until my gaming group fully converted me.

I do pine for the old days sometimes but hey.  Pathfinder is pretty damn sweet, I think.

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