lol try finding the AP for it.

Does AA synergize with the other two at all?  I thought that AA doesn't work at all with crossbows.

What am I missing?

It's late and I'm tired and I may not be really answering the question but I can tell you I ran a Warchanter 1 / Frenzied Bezerker 1 on my last life on Tereana. So I know for sure that pre U11 there was no hard limit of one PRE. I appreciate you're not quite asking that but my thinking is probably it's only the APs that limit you. Just purely an opinion though.

JakLee wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 7:41pm:

Hard limit is 4: 1 racial, 1 from each class. (hard class limit is 3).

The synergy of an AA Arti is mainly due to the large overlap in feats. Both bows and XBows benefit from WF: and IC: ranged, both benefit from RR and RS (to various degrees, ofc), both like having IPS. It allows you more time in viable ranged stances: while manyshot is on timer, Fusiliade offers another good-RoF ranged stance.

But then, if you don't take IPS or Manyshot, there is not much benefit, agreed.

What's the benefit of MechII on your build?

I would call that a soft limit rather than a hard limit. If the level cap were increased to 24, you could have 5 PrEs.

A hard limit is you can only have 3 classes.

aDifferentHandle wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 5:02am:


Exactly.  I've been considering some type of a build that fit in 6 arti with something to give AA along with all the necessary feats to support it.  Really the only options I can see would be Fighter (for the 7-8 feats you'd add for 12-14 levels) or Ranger (for the free feats you get through Ranger 12).  Haven't looked at it very closely yet though.

Don't some PRE's lock out others like Defender of Syb and SD.

aDifferentHandle wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:13pm:


That did relax a bit when they combined the class skill enhancements into general skill enhancements though.  Doesn't fix the ones that require certain boosts but at least fixed the skill-based conflicts.

As soon as they release Dwarven Defender in about 2037 I'll have three PrEs.
Dwarven Defender III // Monk 1 / Pally 7 KotC I / Ranger 12 Tempest II.
And he has the AP for it because Rangers can get by with very little AP.  They have a bunch of minorly cool stuff, but very little that's actually needed beyond FE Damage.

JC wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:44pm:

I see no reason that anything would be prohibited.  Tempest has zero AP reqs, it's all feats (except Ranger Dex 2, which won't be a problem), so no exclusivity there.  And nothing from KotC should conflict with Defender in any way because they're all divine enhancements, which won't be needed or even conflicting with anything from a traditional line.
It should work.... when it eventually gets released.

Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

16 AP in reserve for Dwarven Defender, and a few of the above could be removed without issue if more is needed.

Kensai + Dwarven Defender could be exciting if that ever happens.

JakLee wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 12:50pm:


I'm pretty sure someone in MAC had something like KOTC 1, Tempest 1, Kensai 1. How good an idea it was I know not, because that particular player wasn't brilliant, but it did exist.