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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith (Read 17242 times)
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #50 - Nov 16th, 2011 at 8:56pm
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I would also like to nominate a Shade "cunting" quote be added to he thing at the top of the forum.
  

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sephiroth1084
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #51 - Nov 20th, 2011 at 4:24am
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Asheras wrote on Nov 14th, 2011 at 7:18pm:
I think eSoS is out of sync with the rest of the epic weapon options.  Even the eChaos Blade.  But nerfing it instead of boosting the other epic weapons is the wrong path.  Most epic weapons yield less benefit than GS and have a tougher grind.  The progression should be clear:  Loot Gen -->  Cannith Crafted ---> Raid Loot ---> GS ---> Alchem ---> Epic.

How fucking hard is it?

And if melees get a bit of a buff in the process, who gives a care.  Melees are underpowered atm.


First, I think it should be
Loot Gen-->Cannith-->Raid/GS-->Alch (tier 2)-->tier 3/epic

Raid items aren't necessarily any easier to get than greensteel, and some should certain eclipse GS. Alchemical weapons are a sort of GS+(the simplified edition). If ToD Elite were dropping weapons, I would expect them to end up better than GS.

Anyway, I don't think the solution to the current melee::caster imbalance is to overpower the rest of the weapons in the game to match or exceed the ESoS...not all of them anyway.

For one, the game needs to first get adjusted so that THF can stand on its own merits at endgame without relying upon an incredibly difficult to acquire weapon to bring it even with TWF.

Second, the imbalance between casters and melees has shifted back and forth over the course of DDO's history, where casters were, at the low end, relegated to being largely buffbots, gaining one slot in a raid for buffs and a tiny bit of crowd control while melees dominated everything. Yes, self-healing casters have always been rather strong, and casters while leveling have always been pretty powerful, but for a lot of the game melees dominated, and they did so for several reasons. Rampant immunities and new content with a lot of action between shrines/beginning to end taxes casters more than melees.

Recently, though, we've seen casters gained more self-healing options, more efficient spells, and a revamp to their options in general, along with a removal of many of the immunities that kept casters from dominating the endgame a couple years ago, in addition to more abilities that improve their spells.

Casters have simply been the focus of much improvement for about a year now, and, yes, melees now need to be brought in line with them, but indiscriminately buffing melee combat in excessive ways will just end up leading to more problems down the road. Right now, caster DPS is pretty close to high-end, but not top-notch, melee DPS. The big problems are that they can apply this damage from a safer position and can lay down crowd control/instakills as well, allowing them to move fast and freely in a lot of content.

Simply buffing melee DPS isn't going to solve the issues at hand.
  
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #52 - Nov 20th, 2011 at 5:37am
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sephiroth1084 wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 4:24am:
Simply buffing melee DPS isn't going to solve the issues at hand.


Not to mention it's a cast buff to a melee weapon, not an inherent boost to non-casting classes, which just brings those two closer in that regard.

I mean, just think about it in terms of every d6 being the equivalent of 6 strength (averages 3 vs adds 3, and no to-hit boost, but with all the to-hit bonuses in-game, and the need to make the majority of content consumable by mid-low geared folks so they can acquire the next tier in the first place...)

I dunno, closest I've managed to come up with in terms of actual melee *class* boosts would be something like turning those single-hit feats, like stunning, sunder, trip ect into timed effects, like the damage boosts, but they seem committed to keeping those single-target and single-chance only, despite the equivalent instant-aoe effects from arcanes and divines.
  
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sephiroth1084
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #53 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 1:13am
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QuantumFX wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:38am:
Personally, I would still like to see khopesh nerfed to “Only gets a x3 crit multiplier on a natural 19-20” or “Has the same threat range as a Scimitar/Rapier”.  Toss in a slightly higher base damage (2d4 for a standard khopesh) and call it a day.

Why?  All the exotic weapons are basically other weapons with an increased damage die.  (ex. Bastard Sword is just a higher die Longsword.  Dwarven Axe is a higher base damage Battleaxe.)  Adjusting the crit profile and base damage just makes the khopesh into a funky scimitar.

However, if they nerfed it in this way Bastard Swords/Dwarven Axes would have to lose the benefits that they gain with the THF feats.

And… the devs would have to do something to allow players to transfer greensteel enchantments to a different weapon type.  I was only willing to build my rogue around khopeshes because of the big benefits to a human.  Lose that and I'd rather be piercing specced.

Eh. The problem is that other exotic weapons aren't worth picking up. Dwarves use dwarven axes because they come for free and benefit from enhancements.

If you're going to spend a feat on a weapon it should be better than the stuff you can get for free. If you want to make a comparison to PnP, look at the Spiked Chain: it has a big damage die, is versatile in how it's used, and adds some combat power that no other weapon can touch--reach plus the ability to threaten adjacent spaces.

The khopesh, while a little too strong, isn't so ridiculous that it is the only weapon to use. Scimitars and rapiers aren't that far behind, which is where they should be in comparison to something that costs a feat. In any case, the game is too far along to go and change the khopesh now I think.
  
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #54 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 9:36am
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Khopesh is 3-5% more ubber than a Scimitar depending on the build, not as far out of whack as many people think and it's utility is worth about 1 feat.

It's not worth the out-cry they'd get if they nerfed it.
  
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #55 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:29am
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Actually, my main objection to the khopesh proficiency feat is that it adds less and less as time goes on compared to the other exotics.

I put it this way at the other place (roughly): You've got an aoe attack for bastard swords and dwarven axes, tripple the rate of fire for repeaters, and now knockdown for great crossbows.

Khopesh? You don't need to slot a pair of +4 attack goggles if your to-hit isn't already overkill, which is the same that could be said for the rest of those as well.
  
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #56 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:41am
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sephiroth1084 wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 4:24am:
For one, the game needs to first get adjusted so that THF can stand on its own merits at endgame without relying upon an incredibly difficult to acquire weapon to bring it even with TWF.



I just can't agree with this as TWF takes a hell of a lot more resources than THF. TWF takes a minimum 6 (4 if Elf or Drow) extra build points to acquire (except for builds using 12+ levels of Ranger).
  
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #57 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 4:06pm
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ddoplayer064 wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:41am:
I just can't agree with this as TWF takes a hell of a lot more resources than THF. TWF takes a minimum 6 (4 if Elf or Drow) extra build points to acquire (except for builds using 12+ levels of Ranger).   



20 HP max if it's put in CON?  That's such a HUGE sacrifice Smiley
  
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #58 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 4:52pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 4:06pm:
20 HP max if it's put in CON?  That's such a HUGE sacrifice Smiley

You're forgetting twice the materials for GS/Alcy weapons, twice the needed "specialty" weapons, (smiters/disrupters/etc)...
  
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Re: Weapon rebalancing? Epic / Greensteel / Cannith
Reply #59 - Nov 26th, 2011 at 10:24am
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sounds like a good thing but the odds are it will be a cluster fuck.
  
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