Auran wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 2:26am:

The same devs who came up with underwater combat!!!!! And crafting where you can take paralyzing off a weapon and put it onto another one!!!!  And druids in 2008!!!! Not to be all critical - the bravery bonus is a recent change that is great for example, but there is some history of overselling and under-delivering.

Auran wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 2:26am:

I have a 17/2/1 clr/monk/rog, which isn't all that crazy - I started it from the cleric build catalog maybe six months after I began playing. I don't think I'd even touch the rogue tree when it comes time to respec. Apart from the UMD, I don't find the rogue all that useful. There are very few builds that would be harmed by limiting it to four trees, and as you said, "For every current build that might not work properly under the new system, I expect there will be 50 new ones people will think of".

Go look at the link a few posts up and read the different tiers on the PrE example given for Tempest rangers. There will likely be a ton of benefit in hitting Tier II in several of them (racial + class) if 4-6 levels will allow Tier II. That doesn't leave you with a lot of action points left over for more trees anyways.

We've seen some mutterings about putting potential content up on Lama much earlier recently. This seems like the ideal time.

I have decent hopes of it. The bravery bonus, after all, came from that epic thread MadFloyd started about making multiTRing less boring...

I like this.  Depending on its implementation I may be spending a lot more time on DDO.

Auran wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 2:26am:


My concern is that these new possibilities will be Developer Designated Appropriate options, not creative combinations of component parts.  And that most of those new builds will be thanks to the Racial PrEs, not multiclassing.  I dislike that because it shoehorns builds into obvious race/class combos, and multiclassing gets gutted into a simple pure vs 2-level splash decision.

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That would be better than what we have now, which is worse than what you think it is.  I'm quite confident in my interpretation that we are intended to get 3 class trees, period, and the racial PrE counts as one of them.  I base this on MadFloyd's statement: "Each race will have an enhancement that adds another specific enhancement tree to the character’s available list of trees."  I believe this refers to the list under the dropdowns for each class pane, given the similar language here: "A multiclassed character can change a class enhancement tree with 0 points spent in it to a different class tree that is available to them using the drop down menus."

1 racial + 3 class would be better, adding one for each class taken even more so, but I'm just not seeing much good reason to limit them at all.  We're already limited by APs, and multiclasses already give up enhancements by giving up class levels.  And even if this is a net buff to multiclassing (which I don't think it is, even with unlimited trees), good!  Anything but 20 or 18/2 is far too uncommon as it is.

Tell me if I am grasping this new interface right -

example:
I have what will be a 14/4/2 Halfling Bard/Rogue/Fighter (currently lvl 15). With the new enhancement tree, theoretically I could have the following PrEs if I have enough AP to go around - Warchanter 1, Kensai II and Assassin I (proposed Racial Pre)? If that is the case, that character will go from adequate to "OMFG IT IS A TORNADO OF DEATH".

The way I understand it is that you will need to reach a certain class level to be able to select higher tiered enhancements in a tree.  Prestiges will be based on total AP spent in a tree, but will only be activated once you reach the required class level.  So you could probably do Warchanter II/Assassin .75 (more tiers means we're gonna have to change our nomenclature, methinks).

Cyr wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 11:02am:


Ok. I can't get the Kensai PrE but with 20 points on the ftr tree, could I get Ftr str 2 and fighter weapon bonus? I can't currently get those because of the lvl restrictions. 

Edited:

Auran wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 3:23am:



I can get behind this.


I'm rather sad now that I can't post on the official forums. I'd love to take part in that discussion. Oh well that's what I get for stomping on the wrong johnson over there.

Belwaar wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 11:52am:


Ouch.

stainer wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 11:07am:


That is a big unknown now.  One of the devs not sure if mad or eladrin did specifically mention that some enhancements would still have level or feat requirements attached to them, but they did it in a manner that to me indicates that this is probably not going to be as universal as it is currently.

I think you should ask that in the thread specifically, they have been better then normal in answering requests for clarification in that thread.

Cor wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:


You read well?  So you just willfully ignored this from the same Madfloyd post?

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Edited:

The more I read in that thread, the more I don't think this will end well. Sneak damage in the assassin tree only? Does that mean that haste boost will go in the acrobat tree and int bonuses into mechanic? If you're limited to 3 trees, and they split all that shit up based on what they think is thematically appropriate, multiclassing is going to suck balls.

Also the bard one kinda pisses me off too. Until I see exactly how this all shakes out, I am not impressed.

Knowing this huge changeup is coming means I probably won't be doing anymore TRs soon. Well maybe the wizard, because he will be a wizard next life.

Kimberlite wrote on Jan 10^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:


It's just my hypothesis.  I'm not absolutely certain.  It's neither clearly confirmed nor denied by the Devs.  I could be wrong, but I do think it is consistent with the info we've gotten.  About as consistent as Racial PrE being part of the Racial pane, and in addition to the three Class PrEs.  Overall, my sense of Madfloyd's post (where he speaks of adding it to a "list") points in the direction of it being necessary to choose it as one of the three Class panes.

As for what else would go on the Racial tree?  There would be stats, specific weapon bonuses, save bonuses, human versatility, that kind of stuff.  Page through the Racial enhancements lists on the Wiki, and there are lots there, even if you put the standard skill bonuses back into the class PrE trees.