Eladiun wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 10:18am:


And with that you have my full agreement. There were certainly more pressing issues than changing 3 year old loot

Give me 1d10 untyped or 2d8 bleed damage.

substrate wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 11:13am:



Sure, but slotting all that on a pure Fighter or Barb would likely cost you more DPS in the gear you take off than it's worth.

Belwaar wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

How many people that chug SF pots don't have access to some of this stuff? 

I'm sure there's some out there, but if it came down to it I would understand having to sacrifice a little for the sake of large doses of healing in pot form.

JDollar wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 10:26am:


Size really does matter though and any honest woman will tell you that 1d8 just won't get the job done.  1d10 is average but most women prefer 2d6.  Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to hang my head in shame for posting that.

Maxwell Edison wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 10:48am:


I like the idea of making it bleed damage.  You can make the damage higher, it's situational then, but when it can be used it's the best buff by a wider margin than the 1d8 force versus 1d6 elemental we have now or the 1d10 untyped versus 1d6 elemental you'd suggested.

The other choice that would be really fun and probably be on par power-wise would be to have it add a disintegrate proc.  Balance the proc-rate so you're adding 6-7 damage or so per swing but then it really is 'deadly' weapons rather than, 'ouchy, that hurt a bit more' weapons.  Then have an epic arti spell that adds lightning strike which iirc is 9.5 damage per swing.

Darkrok wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 11:46am:


Disintegrate proc is going too far I think, but stacking 10% fortification bypass would be a good fit balance wise.

Eladiun wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 11:52am:


I was just wondering the exact same thing.  Hopefully he decided to scrap it and just nerfed Deadly Weapons instead.  It would be pretty dumb for someone to be fundamentally changing how damage is calculated for every single weapon in the game* just for one spell and "unspecified possible future developments that might not suck."





* Except for the three different flavors of handwraps.  Those would get "fixed" later

JDollar wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 10:26am:


Maxwell Edison wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 10:48am:

I'd be more upset opinionated about the DW change, but the only melees I play at the moment are monks (and it never worked in the first place), and my arti is only level 7, so I'm fairly indifferent.

Don't panic about Madstone's yet:

Genasi:

As many of you have (rightfully) asked for us to do in this thread: let's talk.

The changes to Madstone Rage all began with an intention to fix the effect such that you would no longer be prevented from using items like item clickies, Incense Torches and Lesser Restoration potions. Any item that we create in such a way that it "casts a spell" from itself was being blocked by Madstone Rage due to the no-casting restriction, so removing that to allow spell-based items to function was the first step.

However, we were then faced with the situation of the boots being too desirable for casters compared to before: as many of you have said already, it's not the casters that need buffing here! That was the reason for the penalties to the casting stats: to dissuade caster characters from wanting to use these items and taking them away from the melee characters the boots were intended for, while avoiding preventing classes such as Paladins or Rangers from casting their spells entirely. But that did have some unforeseen consequences:

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboytkd 
There is ZERO reason to make being self-sufficient more difficult on melees (SF pots were a big source of melee self-sufficiency, which can't really be used with these boots). There's really no reason to give spellcasters, especially wf sorcs, more access to con boosts at the expense of melee power.
We didn't anticipate the effect this would have on characters that rely on Silver Flame potions for healing, and certainly didn't intend to proxy-nerf them. Not only that, but it's true that the penalties to those stats may even be too minor with respecting to casting to make magic-users think twice about Madstone Raging. So how could we do that better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkyle 
If you want to make them usable by casters, while also benefiting melee as well, then simply replace the "can't cast" on the current item with a +50% spell point cost, -4 to UMD checks, and -2 DC to all spells. Drop the morale-typing, stat penalties, and Shaken aftereffect. That way, casters can still use them, if they feel they're worth the cost, and discourages spell casting with them on.
Instead of reducing Int/Wis/Cha, the -2 DC penalty plus extra spell point cost suggestion here seems like a good way to accomplish the goal of deterring spellcasters from using the boots, while not penalizing other types of characters in unrelated ways. Another option would be to have Madstone Rage bestow something like a 50% spell failure chance, but that strikes me as a bit more penalizing than necessary due to the unreliability of whether or not the spell will actually take effect.

It seems the extra Will save penalty is probably unnecessary as well, though the Shaken effect was really added more as a flavor element than anything else. It's preventable by Greater Heroism and other fear-immunity effects, and removable by anything that removes fear. However, if it still seems like too much of a penalty, the suggestion of making it a Fatigue effect instead also seemed appropriate. Let us know what your thoughts are on this portion of the change.

Finally, the bonuses to Strength and Constitution were changed to be Morale-type mainly because of the situation of being able to stack the on-demand clicky with the proc chance on the item. That's why the stat buffs were increased to compensate. But this does have the effect of making them not stack with many other sources of Rage-like Strength and Con buffs, so changing them to a Profane bonus is something we're considering. The clicky and proc still won't stack, but the buffs will stack with most other outside sources.

To sum up: we're definitely going to change how we approach the modifications to Madstone Rage here, so please offer your thoughts on the above possibilities, and we'll come to the decision that seems to make the most sense. And thank you all for the frank feedback: this is what Lamannia is for.

Eladiun wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 11:52am:



[QUOTE=Vesuvium;4282077]First things first, thanks for all the feedback.

Just to get you all up-to-speed on the subject: Deadly Weapons was unintentionally released to the live servers during Update 12. It was released in a form that had not yet been balanced, bug-fixed, or otherwise polished and approved. There are concerns with how it interacts with handwraps, ranged weapons, high base damage weapons, etc.

Additionally, it was released without the corresponding spell scrolls, creating a situation where level-capped Artificers were unable to acquire the spell at all, unless they chose to True Reincarnate. This, combined with the fact that it was more powerful than intended in certain situations, was punishing to early adopters of the class, who now had to compete for groups with newer artificers that had this spell.

Back in November, Eladrin described the intended version of Deadly Weapons. (The details, of course, are subject to change). We would have loved to be able to have this complete in time for U13, but it was not.

Rather than removing the spell outright, and then re-releasing it when it is completed, we chose to introduce a temporary version of the spell in Update 13. This is the version described in the Lamannia release notes. This interim version of the spell will be replaced by the final version that Eladrin described in the next major update.

Also note: In the next update to Lamannia and in the eventual live release of U13, the spell should once again apply to both the off-hand and the main-hand weapons. [/quote]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4282077&postcount=81

No surprise...Turbine's release management is fucked up.

Did anyone not know that Deadly Weapons was fucked up and released wrong because of the dice bugs? 

I think that the dice change is for the best, though.  I can't see anything to complain about with it, tbh.