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So, we go from having too little content 15+ to having too little content at 20+ where it is supposed to be twice as hard to level!  Not only that, you get to spend MORE time in lives that you hate.  Awesome for TR's!

The devs are being fucking retards. 

A few pointed out how their current leveling plan would discourage TRing and create a divide between TRers and end-game players (it will, bet on it) and their solution is to propose something so horrible that their original idea looks better in comparison. 

Bigjunk wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 8:35am:


Well, it is a strategy.
If you want a blow job, just ask your girlfriend to have brutal anal sex, and then conform with the fellatio.

Bigjunk wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 8:35am:



The TR issue is not an easy one to solve in relation to Epic levels, or even in relation to an increasing level cap.  We were talking about it back in 2010.

The basic problem is that TR, as it stands, provides a fixed benefit (past life feat + more build points) for a cost that depends on the existing level cap.  If the level cap goes up, you can either keep the cost the same or have the cost go up with the level cap.  Having the cost increase with the level cap means that the TR cost:benefit ratio decreases, making it less attractive.  It's not immediately obvious how to keep the cost the same without introducing a divide between the TR characters and the Epic characters.

I suppose that one avenue that hasn't really been explored is to increase the benefit of a TR.  Maybe a TR could provide X extra action points at cap, where X is a function of the level cap.  So at level 20 (current) it provides 0 extra action points.  For each level beyond 20 it provides 1/2 of an action point per past life.  So the cost of a TR continues to increase as the level cap increases, but the benefit increases as well.  The example of action points is just one idea for increased benefit; it could be extra epic twists, or epic feats, or whatever.

Alternatively, the cost could be kept fixed by spreading the extra XP requirement across the entire level range.  So currently with the level cap of 20 the extra XP cost of a TR is spread across the 20 levels.  With the level cap increase to 25, the extra XP cost would be spread across 25 levels instead.  This would have the interesting side effect of decreasing the cost of re-leveling to 20 as more levels are added to the game, but the overall cost to re-cap a character would still be the same.

Just food for thought, but I definitely think the TR issue is a thorny one.

Bigjunk wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 8:35am:


In any MMO, there is a divide between casual and end-game.  It's been pointed out before that completionist/multi-TR doesn't take any skill just a willingness to grind XP from the same content over and over.  TR was a trick anyway.  It was a trick by the dev to keep people engaged and playing the same content over and over so they could spend the better part of two years not releasing any new end game content.

Aeolwind wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 8:59am:


Fair is for pussies. Progression.  If you want to progress than what you did in the past or what worked in the past is meaningless.  The only people crying are a bunch of shitty players who want to think they are uber because they grind xp well.

Personally I thought you would have TRing for lvl 1-20 and lvl 21-25 just as the epic destinies persist through TRs. Not exactly lvl 21-25 but the xp required to take those lvls once you hit 20 that is. But I guess that would be too simple and good for the players to implement it..

If they really want to twink it - why not allow lvl 18+ characters to play around with epic destinies, pregrind epic xp by giving them access to lvl 21-25 content. So the last lvls of TR are actually not just the boring xp grind.

Azuphle wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 9:45am:


There will still be a big difference between a 32-point build and a 36-point build, or a wizard with 3 past lives vs. 0 past lives.  Enough that people will want to TR, anyway.

Have you guys even been reading? Or does your comprehension equate to that of a 2yr old?

Stainer already asked about this.  The answer that was given was, you will retain your epic destinies.  When you get back to level 20 you may not be able to use them.  An example as to why was lvl 23 req.

That being said, this is turbine.  They don't even know how it will work until we look at it and tell them.

Schmoe wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 9:56am:


Assume any Wizard worth their salt takes at least 1 TR.

That means you van get +4 to SP from two more TR's  and +8 from The Magister Epic Destinies...so far without Twists and Side schools.

Epoch wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:04am:


Well my ISP did the smart thing and blocks turbine services, they called it an accident, but they are prolly celebrating it - as result I can't read the official forums though.

Apart from that, does little Epoch actually understand what the word 'just' in combination with the word 'as' means or is the later missing a 's' for comprehension?

Azuphle wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 9:37am:

Azuphle wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:18am:


I agree I think past lives will be marginalized greatly.

The one exception is Paladin past lives. That 15% Heal Amp is only going to rise in value as we get more healing amp sources in the game, because that shit is multiplicative.

stainer wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 10:54am:


You can unlock different destines at any time by visiting the destiny guy in the Marketplace (or wherever he ends up).  It will be just like changing your enhancements, except without a cooldown timer.