Asheras wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 9:26pm:


Honestly, they may be gaining on the bottom end but I can list off a few dozen of end game/very active players from Khyber who have left.  I'm sure everyone on the other servers can as well.  I know of at least 10 30-40 hour a week players from Helpers alone who are gone. 

He may not have proof but I think it can be inferred from some of the changes they have made and choices they have made.

There are a couple of big releases coming that could put the nails in the coffin this year.

Eladiun wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:18am:


Yes, yes I can.  I can also list off a whole bunch of "newer" players graduating to the top.  It's how most all open communities anywhere work.

Eladiun wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:36am:


Do you spend more or less time there than you do on the DDO Vault? DDO...

Gunga wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:43am:



One of these days, I'll give you a tutorial on browser tabs and new aggregators.

Peechie wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 11:15am:


Interesting because I talk to more than a few people who say the opposite.

Bigjunk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 11:35am:


I assumed there was still a crowd at that level.  A lot of their recent decisions: XP Stones, New Vet Status, etc have obviously been aimed at that casual crowd that levels slowly.  They are trying to drag them kicking and screaming into Forgotten Realms content.

Bigjunk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 11:52am:


...which I find mind boggling at this point considering how much the rewards from TR'ing have been diminished by Epic Destinies.  Also, after a couple TR's and running the content over and over...the fastest XP game play style gets boring.

Eladiun wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 11:22am:


You play(ed) on Khyber, everything is both better and worse on Khyber depending on the point you are trying to make.

Also . . . EDs have been out for almost a year now.  Most have their EDs maxxed or good enough.   What else is there to do to get moar power?

Eladiun wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 11:55am:


Anything that stacks will be chased, though.

When you look at how much more powerful the most super-awesome-est items in the entire game are, with just a very few exceptions, the super-grindy items aren't much better than the almost-as-good items.  Aside from weapons (which are themselves significantly diminished in significance with Epic Destinies), the "top end" gear isn't that much different from some fairly easy to get stuff.

That's actually one of the reasons why I think they really need to change the shard/seal/scroll mechanics - "leveling gear" shouldn't be that tedious to obtain.

Bigjunk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:11pm:


NOTpopejubal wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:


This was also part of what sent me off...  I have all this power.  Where to use it?  Oh, I don't really need it.  Oh, that gear's cool...but it really won't make a difference anyway. What's that leave?  Oh, I can run the same shit I have been running for three years with little pay off in the end.  We were pulling 30+ hours a week in game.  You really beat down the door after a while.

NOTpopejubal wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:


Changing Epics was what broke end game.  It wasn't perfect but it was a lot better than what they have now.

Eladiun wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:


I'm actually fine with having a grind for end game gear.  I just think that once the gear is no longer end game gear, that grind should be reduced significantly.  I think that the big-end-rewards-list-on-third-run idea was fantastic.  For items that are in mid-level quests, but still qualify as end game gear (I'm looking at Greensteel here in particular), I don't think that the grind needs to be reduced significantly.  I think that the extra chests on Hard and Elite was a good change for Shroud.

If they had put in Shard/Seal/Scroll for the new Epics and dropped full Epic items for the legacy Epics, I'd have been happy.  It's too late for that now because of the outcry that would come from increasing grind on the existing items.

Eladiun wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:


I remember a thread that was out Pre-MoTU where in you stated that MoTU would be a flop if the cap goes up by 5 and new gear comes out and we are still wearing the same stuff from before.  The new gear had to completely supersede the old. 

I think that was wrong.  As we have seen, the new gear did invalidate the old.  It also, by association, invalidated Reavers Fate, Abbott, VoD, Hound, ToD, and E Chronoscope.  It didn't completely wipe out, but severely crippled, LoB, MA, eVoN, eDesert, eFens, ePhirlian, and eSentinels. 

That left you with running 14 quests and 1 or 2 Raids instead of 50 some quests and 10 raids.  It was a huge hit to end game appeal. 

One year later we are to 29 quests and 2 (or 3) raids.  If they did fix the old epics and let them drop completed items and use commendations to upgrade all the level 20 versions to level 23 versions that would be more end game relevant all that content could become viable again.  A fix is needed.  The gear is solid for leveling from 20-23.  It's just too much of a grind for mid level gear.  Make it match the current system and give it a progression path for upgrade and it would be a boon.