Eladiun wrote on May 28^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:


I don't recall ever seeing a company that has lasted this long while doing the basics incorrectly.

I thought it was community college extension introduction classes. They are generating an FAQ on how NOT to...
Those that learn, move on to other companies. Those that don't, manage.

Eladiun wrote on May 28^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:


I disagree.  They are striving for a balance that is nearly impossible to hit.  I'd say their priority tree looks like this:

1.  Current Premium/VIP Players who are spending $$ on store items and content.
2.  New F2P Players (started playing in last 6 months) who are possibly going to become Premium/ViP players. (This includes non-players who are curioius or considering giving it a try)
3.  Current Premium/VIP Players who spend $$ on content, races, and classes only.  No consumables or P2Win items or cosmetics.
4.  Current Premium Players who do not spend $$ at all.  (This is where your very highest tier of power gamers are.  They don't buy anything.  They are Premium and they trade in game farmed items for TP codes to get things they want)
5.  Current F2P players who have been around for 6 months or longer and never spent enough to become Premium.

They want to serve the top 4 priority points, but will lean towards the top 2 on their development efforts.  Most of your high quality/end game players are in tier 3 and 4.  Some are in Tier 1.  (The ones with excess income who don't mind spending it on a game).  Most of Tier 1 is your more casual players and mid-tier players, however. 

To say they don't give a fuck is inaccurate.  To say you are not their first priority, that I would agree with.  And if they have to choose between making their casual players and new players happy and excited vs. making their end game power players happy and excited, they will probably choose the casual/new player group.  That's where the revenue comes from, by and large. 

Asheras wrote on May 28^th, 2013 at 8:16pm:



Shocker

Kalari wrote on May 28^th, 2013 at 8:57pm:


I think my definition of hardcore and casual is different than yours. 

It seems you are defining casual based on skill level or knowledge level, specifically regarding end game or multi life toons. 

In my comments, casual is not about game play level, it's about time commitment.  Lots of very good players play the game less than 20 hours per week.  They run EE content.  They end game raid.  Because of their limited time, they augment their gaming experience with purchases to "keep up with the jones".  They buy raid bypasses and ottos boxes and hearts of wood and superior XP pots.  They do this because they don't have time to farm 20 epic tokens or to run the raids religiously every 3 days or to spend the 30 hours it takes to get the 3.5 million XP you can skip with an otto's box. 

The hard core do not buy raid bypasses.  They don't have to.  They farm EE Gear and trade for bypasses.  The hard core do not spend insane amounts of money to TR.  They grind Cannith quests for tokens and get a heart of wood for free.  They don't use XP pots and they don't use otto's boxes.  It costs them nothing to TR.  But time. 

The overwhelming majority of the player base is not hardcore.  The majority of the vault and the forums are hardcore, however.  The overwhelming majority of the people logging into Lamannia are hard core.  That's where the discrepancy exists.  The hardcore sit around and can't figure out why, when everyone else agrees, that Turbine can't see that all the players hate this stuff.  The problem is that the "everyone" you are referring to is 5% of the player base.  The other 95% does not agree and does not hate what is happening.  The problem the hard core have is believing that they are not the "core" of the player base.  But they aren't they are outliers. 

95% of the DDO player base do not have the following problems:

- Find the game too easy.  Even on EE.
- Are bored because all their toons have all the loot
- Have run every quest (or at least the 60 or so with solid XP/min ratios or good named loot) 200+ times and are bored of running them.
- Have long periods between content releases where there is nothing to do.

You can mock them for the above, but the reality is, they pay the bills more than the hard core 40+ hour per week players and the developer listens to their wallets. 

IF you say so Ash I used to try hard to defend DDO but lately the fight has been taken out of me say what you will about hardcore or casual the fact of the matter is they keep on pressing with foolish decisions it will affect all who play the game eventually especially the enhancement crap that is far from ready and will be released unfinished (god I am getting Prestige flashbacks ) I just don't know what the powers that be there are thinking and now with the release of an expansion pack without any trace of a raid I just see the failship continuing to tread waters.

Asheras wrote on May 28^th, 2013 at 10:23pm:


Most "hardcore" players bring in far more revenue to turbine than the average casual, ever since high end items became tradeable with TP. 

Also, here's a list of crap that affects casuals just as much as hardcore players:

game breaking crashes and lag
game breaking bugs introduced literally every update
stealth nerfs and game mechanic changes with no corresponding patch notes
incomplete expansions with either no raids or less raids than promised
bugged/not working abilities in every class and every destiny
incompetent and useless GMs

And keepin mind these are all basically categories of issues, not single issues.  You honestly think this doesn't drive away casual players as well as hardcore players?  I've been in several guilds since I've started that have all but died due to disgust with turbine.  Even CE channel which was one of the most active channels on khyber is about 1/10th as active as they once were at peak.

AtomicMew wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 4:58am:


What "Game Breaking" crash?  I've not had the game crash on me in months.

"Game Breaking" lag?  I've run CiTW and FoT 10 times in the last two weeks and not had more than 10 seconds of lag in any of the runs.  No lag wipes.  I had some lag in a run of Tor on Sunday in the White Dragon room, but it cleared up quickly and didn't cause a wipe.  Did cause the monk to die.  Lag is the exception more than the rule.  If it happens on 1 quest in 10 and not to a duration that causes a wipe, I don't consider that to be a huge lag issue.  I used to lag a lot, but I got a new PC in December and lag is virtually non-existent.  FoT was bad that first two weeks eGH was out, but that's not an issue anymore.  Even in i2049.

What "game breaking" bugs?  I think Baudry's is closed.  And the Spinner bugs out sometimes.  But the GM's will give you completion there.  Not sure that qualifies as "Game Breaking".  Sure there are bugs, but nothing that makes it impossible to play the game. 

Expect changes in an MMO.  I don't understand why people who play an MMO feel they have a right to get upset when mechanics are changed or things are nerfed.  Please name a single MMO that exists that has not had to do this?  Even NWO, still in Beta, has had to nerf some things already.  Every game does it.  It's part of the deal.  Get over it. 

I agree with you on content.  Everybody likes more content and more raids.  The odd thing is that lots of people who clamor for MOAR CONTENT and MOAR RAIDS and bash Turbine for not delivering more content are also saying they refuse to spend any more money on DDO.  Period.  (this thread has lots of people saying that).  Of course, those two things are mutually exclusive.  If you buy content, they will build more.  If you do not, they won't.  So you can't want more content and then refuse to pay for it.  If your goal is to get them to build more content, you have to pay for the content they build.  If your goal is to get them to stop building content, then don't buy anything.  Getting more content and not giving Turbine any more of your money do not go together, however. 

How many classes have a bug that makes the class even remotely un-playable?  My monk is fun.  My Tank is fun.  My FvS is fun.  Even my Wizzy is fun.  I notice the damage is off some, but it's not that big a deal.  It takes an extra cast here and there to kill something.  Setting the Wiz aside, I can't think of a single thing negatively affecting my FvS, dark monk, or SD Fighter currently.  I love playing all 3 of them.  So every class has bugs?  If they do, are the bugs that matter, even slightly?

I commented on Rothgar in my Spinner thread.  He was very helpful.  I've had both good and bad experiences with DDO GM's.  Some were frustrating.  I agree with you that they could use some consistency here.  The variation in quality level of customer service between GM's is very high. 

Asheras wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 9:38am:


This has gotta be some of the stupidest attempts at an argument that I've ever seen.

Asheras wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 10:12am:



No, it's just pretty fucking stupid.

Asheras wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 10:21am:



I don't have the time right now to give you a proper rebuttal the fact is your definitions of gamer categories are just plain wrong. They are in fact quite ridiculous.  There are maybe a handful of people who work the markets in the way you describe and they would only account for a small portion of hardcore players and some aren't even hardcore players.  In other games these players would be crafters or market manipulators but DDO has a worthless crafting system and a fucked up economy.  The amount of time spent in game doesn't define hardcore vs casual.  A lot of hardcore players buy hearts and unlocks because they don't want to waste time on ancillary shit.  (I bought most of my True Hearts because I hated farming and felt my tokens more useful for slotting shit granted I mostly used my monthly allotment but I bought TP packs on a few occasions.)  They are focused on accomplishing tangible goals like being BIS geared or squeezing every point they can from TR's.  A casual players is the type who has 12 alts and not one has seen a cap they could play 40 hours a week or ten but for them it's the journey not the destination.  I know hardcore players who only play 10-15 hours a week but their time is laser focused and they use store consumables to enable them to pursue their goals. 

Bigjunk wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 10:39am:


I can see you don't actually have a valid response or counter-point.  Just two posts calling me stupid.  Then again, that's about the depth of your analytic skills.

Asheras wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 10:48am:


That he's bored enough to debate an idiot?

Bigjunk wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 10:39am:

I once someone once say that whenever you point a finger at someone, you are pointing the other three back at yourself.