1 Class tree would be enough if done well....
so 1 Race Tree, 1 Class Tree, 3-5 PRE Trees.

Flav wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 3:09am:


Yeah I agree with your concern.  I just gave up fighting for my main class.  I'll just play now, if I am gimp, then I am.

So thanks to the guys for still caring and giving the good fight.

Carpone wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 3:40pm:

Actually, they're on par with Wizard Necromancy DCs.  Here's the math.

Wisdom break down:
18 base
07 Level up
05 Tome
01 Great Wisdom feat
01 Great Wisdom feat
01 Human Adaptability
02 Season's Herald enhancement (FvS: Angel of Vengeance; Cleric: Radiant Servant)
02 Nature's Warrior enhancement (FvS: Protection; Cleric: Divine Disciple)
08 Enchantment (item)
03 Insightful (item)
01 Exceptional (item)
01 Profane (Litany)
06 Epic destiny
02 Twist: Acute Instinct (+2 WIS when raged)
02 Yugo Potion
02 Ship
02 Lesser Water Stance (if 2 Monk) or Season's Herald capstone (if 20 Druid) or Cleric capstone (if 20 Cleric)
= 64 at level 28.  Note: You're forced to be Human for the +1 WIS racial bonus. WRU +2 WIS race?!

Evocation DC
10 Base
09 Spell Level (Heighten)
03 Past Life: Sorcerer
01 Past Life: Arcane Initiate
03 Epic Evocation Focus feat
03 Major Evocation Focus item
27 WIS bonus
03 Twist: Evocation Specialist (Magister)
02 Twist: Precise Evocation (Draconic)
= 61 max for Druid
01 FvS Angel of Vengeance (tier 5) or Cleric Divine Disciple (tier 4)
= 62 max for Favored Soul
01 Cleric Divine Disciple (tier 5)
= 63 max for Cleric (a boondongle IMO, as the primary reason to be a Cleric is Radiant Servant)

61 Evocation for Druid is actually alot more useful than 62 for Cleric/FvS.  The only point of max DC for divines is Implosion, but thanks to insane Fortification saves and a 1 minute cooldown it's been marginalized in EE content.  However, 61 DC for Earthquake in EE content is really damned good especially when coupled with Mantle of the Icy Soul for -4 Reflex saves.  While it's great CC, max DC druids can't actually kill EE mobs without chain chugging mana potions.  Their mana pools are too small, and Earthquake + Avatar of Nature is mana intensive.  Forget about actually killing EE mobs with spell damage as a druid.  A 2 minute cooldown for the Storm of Vengeance and Sunburst SLAs are 75 and 105 seconds too long, respectively.

With the cap raising to 28, we might see +9 enhancement, +4 insightful and +4 DC items for a net +2 DC bump over what's calculated above.  Using the EE scaling we've seen in quests since U16 was released, a level 28 divine DC casters will perform worse than they do now.

Dickbutt wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32am:



Even so, Carpone's stats are full retard DC's.  That's a long road and mostly available to a very small percentage of the player base, if they even want to go full DC's like that.  There needs to be some more wiggle room. 

Asheras wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:36am:


Most of those aren't very hard to get; they just require a lot of sacrifice. I wouldn't waste that many feats, ED points, or the last twist to get a bit higher DC.
The worst things are the +5 tome, 4 Past Lives, and ED grinding. It's available to most people; it's just not practical for anyone.

I just realized it's missing +2 Alchemical Wisdom, as well. With the amount LoB seems to be run, that may be a larger grind than the +5 tome.

Dickbutt wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:54am:

My calcs aren't missing +2 alchemical wisdom.  It's only available on a weapon, and the only Major Evocation Focus item is a staff (and is also your source for 120 Force, 120 Radiance and 114 Positive spellpower).  Choose one.

A +6 evoc mastery one hander could do the trick, but you'd have to choose only one spell power for the 120. And the alchemical could have martial 3rd tier to slot the 114 positive. Well, if alchemical red slots FUCKING WORKED WITH THE NEW ENHANCEMENT SYSTEM.

Dickbutt wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:54am:


i ended up avoiding the alchemical shield as it was rumoured that they were going to make the ship buffs an alchemical bonus, not sure if they ever did...

As an 18 FvS/2 Monk I used Water Stance so I had to remain centered.  I wish you the best of luck finding a Major Evocation Focus kama to use with your alchemical kama.

LafoMamone wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 2:54pm:

You can't be practical about max DC without accounting for the actual gear in the game.  I looked for a kama for 4 months on Orien and gave up.

You'll notice I didn't list Abishai cookies, Completionist or DDO Store potions in my calcs nor did I consider a swap-a-thon with Enervation scrolls.  There's full retard DC casting, and then there's theorycrafting.  You've crossed over into the latter.  Either way, full retard DC casting shouldn't be required to just be suboptimal (instead of worthless) in EE content.

Carpone wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 3:10pm:


I suppose it's all about where you draw the line. In my case, a major evo kama would not be theorycrafting, but completionist would.

Cookies, store pots and enervation scrolls I wouldn't count anyway, since they vary too much in obtainability and magnitude (unlike, say, yugo pots)...and frankly, I have never seen anyone use those in DC calcs, and for good reason. I was simply baffled by your notion that major evo is staff-exclusive.

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Ah it's only legacy items that cannot be slotted correctly. Thanks for the heads up.

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If you think trading bound items is implausible, then I think it is time for you to finally leave Korthos and see what else is out there.