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Whining Monks (Read 13047 times)

Bigjunk Horoluth Raider Offline Hjeal meh! Posts: 2686 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #25 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:10am	Print Post
	HairyO wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:01pm: Surely its the Sorcs/Wizards who complain the most? Most of the caster bitching of late is justified, at least since the saves we full-retard in EE.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #26 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:16am	Print Post
	Bigjunk wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:10am: Most of the caster bitching of late is justified, at least since the saves we full-retard in EE. Agree with this and previous posters. Casters bitching about DPS are whiny. Casters bitching about DC's/Spell Pen have a legit point. They seem to struggle with this balance. It would be great if they could get to a system where nuker and DC's casting were both viable.


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NOTdarth Puppy Farmer Offline Save the Planet, Kill Yourself Posts: 1495 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #27 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:18am	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:16am: They seem to struggle with this balance. It would be great if they could get to a system where nuker and DC's casting were both viable. They had it. Then MotU came out.


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Bigjunk Horoluth Raider Offline Hjeal meh! Posts: 2686 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #28 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:07am	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:16am: Agree with this and previous posters.� Casters bitching about DPS are whiny.� Casters bitching about DC's/Spell Pen have a legit point.� They seem to struggle with this balance.� It would be great if they could get to a system where nuker and DC's casting were both viable. Nukers to have a legit gripe. In EE a draconic sorc on non-helpless targets is really wanting, even with Burst, breath, etc . . . The Shiradi thing is a borderline exploit and nerfed to hell in the enh pass. This is tough to balance, pre-U14 caster dominance was just stupid as it the way things are now in EH. But they sung the pendulum too far in EE.


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Bigjunk Horoluth Raider Offline Hjeal meh! Posts: 2686 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #29 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:09am	Print Post
	NOTdarth wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:18am: They had it. Then MotU came out. No . . . it was fine WHEN MoTU came out. The current stupidity hit us in U16. DC casting and non Shiradi sorcs were fine in U14/15. It's not until some genius decided CR55 was the right amount of hit-dice for a trash mob.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #30 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:44am	Print Post
	I would rather see that EN become like EH is today. I'd like EH to be about 75% of what EE is and EE to stay right where it is. Then, give us some actual PrE's and ED's that give us the ability to hit EE DC's and do meaningful DPS in EE, not using Shriadi. Draconic and Magister and the Caster/Sorc PrE's need work. Maybe part of their plan is the new Epic PL's. I don't know. But I don't like that DC's are either No Fail (EN/EH) or Unreachable (EE).


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Grace Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 5851 Joined: Aug 4^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #31 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:20am	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:44am: I would rather see that EN become like EH is today.� I'd like EH to be about 75% of what EE is and EE to stay right where it is.� Then, give us some actual PrE's and ED's that give us the ability to hit EE DC's and do meaningful DPS in EE, not using Shriadi.� Draconic and Magister and the Caster/Sorc PrE's� need work. Maybe part of their plan is the new Epic PL's.� I don't know.� But I don't like that DC's are either No Fail (EN/EH) or Unreachable (EE).� � Isn't part of the problem that the DCs for increased epic levels aren't calculating correctly? If that's the case, then it's not the difficulty of quests that need to change, the system just needs to be fixed. Plus, I assume we will also get increases in stats and/or feats for the new three levels, just like we do in epic levels 1-5. I assume that the difficulty level of quests was based on the long term plan and not the short term.

	JDollar wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 5:25pm: she's Kmack's property Quote: You're obviously important to the community.� And not just because your skin is so supple and soft and smells like honeysuckle and friendship. JDollar wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 2:15am: To put in DnD terms Grace is a CR 60 EE Ball Busting Bitch
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Bigjunk Horoluth Raider Offline Hjeal meh! Posts: 2686 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #32 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:25am	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:44am: I would rather see that EN become like EH is today.� I'd like EH to be about 75% of what EE is and EE to stay right where it is.� Then, give us some actual PrE's and ED's that give us the ability to hit EE DC's and do meaningful DPS in EE, not using Shriadi.� Draconic and Magister and the Caster/Sorc PrE's� need work. Maybe part of their plan is the new Epic PL's.� I don't know.� But I don't like that DC's are either No Fail (EN/EH) or Unreachable (EE).� � Saying DCs are "unreachable" is hyperbole as a good PM can still kill at a decent clip. You cannot dominate like you can in heroics or EN/EH but with prepping you can still get 25-30 kills per blue-bar in level 24 EEs. Not good enough to solo but you're fine in a group and will often be the top-killer. I'm getting 4 more necro DC (makes it a 60) on Lamania. Will it be enough? I have no idea. The ship has sailed on the EN/EH/EE thingy. once they made better loot drop on EE they made EE the only difficulty loot-whores run. EH/EN is for leveling up EDs and that's it.


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Bigjunk Horoluth Raider Offline Hjeal meh! Posts: 2686 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #33 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:25am	Print Post
	Grace wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:20am: Isn't part of the problem that the DCs for increased epic levels aren't calculating correctly? If that's the case, then it's not the difficulty of quests that need to change, the system just needs to be fixed. Plus, I assume we will also get increases in stats and/or feats for the new three levels, just like we do in epic levels 1-5. I assume that the difficulty level of quests was based on the long term plan and not the short term. 1 stat point 1 feat Won't really matter.


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Jackknife of Sarlona Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 140 Joined: Jan 26^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #34 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 1:18pm	Print Post
	Bigjunk wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:25am: 1 stat point 1 feat Won't really matter. Do you know if we will get more points to spend on ED's? It's capped at 24 now, but I thought perhaps we might get more from higher epic levels.


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higgildypiggildy Stormreaver Piker Offline I just mock the world Posts: 660 Joined: Dec 8^th, 2011	Re: Whining Monks Reply #35 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 2:13pm	Print Post
	I've seen nothing about ED's going any higher

	I ain't got no mothafukkinsignature
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higgildypiggildy Stormreaver Piker Offline I just mock the world Posts: 660 Joined: Dec 8^th, 2011	Re: Whining Monks Reply #36 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 2:14pm	Print Post
	Oh and monks have always been whinging and whining, often with very good reasons.

	I ain't got no mothafukkinsignature
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Bigjunk Horoluth Raider Offline Hjeal meh! Posts: 2686 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #37 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 2:28pm	Print Post
	Jackknife of Sarlona wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 1:18pm: Do you know if we will get more points to spend on ED's? It's capped at 24 now, but I thought perhaps we might get more from higher epic levels. Nothing has been stated ANYWHERE to indicate this would be happening.


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Bigjunk Horoluth Raider Offline Hjeal meh! Posts: 2686 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #38 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 2:28pm	Print Post
	higgildypiggildy wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 2:14pm: Oh and monks have always been whinging and whining, often with very good reasons. Philosophical question . . . is it still whining if it's justified? Most of the stuff people complain about in DDO is.


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Jackknife of Sarlona Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 140 Joined: Jan 26^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #39 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 2:33pm	Print Post
	Bigjunk wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 2:28pm: Nothing has been stated ANYWHERE to indicate this would be happening. Thanks. I didn't see it anywhere either, but I've been away from DDO for a few months.


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Carpone Puppy Farmer Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1695 Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #40 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 6:21pm	Print Post
	TWF Monks = No Country For Old Men.


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Arkat Chonus Christ Offline Hola Bienvenido Posts: 12345 Location: Wyoming Joined: Jul 13^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #41 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 6:25pm	Print Post
	Carpone wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 6:21pm: TWF Monks = No Country For Old Men.� Dual Celestias on a H-Elf Ninja Spy (Rogue Dilly) in Earth Stance in the Legendary Dreadnaught Epic Destiny are very nice. They get even better with the new Enhancement pass. 116 PRR is pretty damn cool.
	« Last Edit: Jul 1^st, 2013 at 6:27pm by Arkat »
	Stand on hills of long-forgotten yesterdays... Looking for a sign that the Universal Mind has written you into the Passion Play.
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Carpone Puppy Farmer Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1695 Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #42 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 7:46pm	Print Post
	Arkat wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 6:25pm: Dual Celestias on a H-Elf Ninja Spy (Rogue Dilly) in Earth Stance in the Legendary Dreadnaught Epic Destiny are very nice. They get even better with the new Enhancement pass. 116 PRR is pretty damn cool. 15 Planar Prowess 14 Augment 10 Improved Parry (Tempest) 15 Grandmaster of Mountains 15 Twist: Standing in Stone (GMoF) ---- 69 Where's the other 47 PRR?


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Arkat Chonus Christ Offline Hola Bienvenido Posts: 12345 Location: Wyoming Joined: Jul 13^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #43 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 8:28pm	Print Post
	Carpone wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 7:46pm: 15 Planar Prowess 14 Augment 10 Improved Parry (Tempest) 15 Grandmaster of Mountains 15 Twist: Standing in Stone (GMoF) ---- 69 Where's the other 47 PRR? Here's what she has on Lamannia right now: 15 Planar Prowess 16 Augment (apparently it's giving 16 PRR and not 14...could be a display error I suppose) 15 Grandmaster of Mountains 15 Twist: Standing in Stone (GMoF) 35 Defensive Strikes Stance (from Shintao tree; yes you can have stuff from more than one Monk tree) 15 Iron Skin (also from Shintao tree) 5� Two Weapon Defense 116 Total
	« Last Edit: Jul 1^st, 2013 at 8:34pm by Arkat »
	Stand on hills of long-forgotten yesterdays... Looking for a sign that the Universal Mind has written you into the Passion Play.
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HairyO Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 355 Joined: Jun 30^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #44 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:21pm	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:16am: They seem to struggle with this balance.� It would be great if they could get to a system where nuker and DC's casting were both viable. Then you risk casters being able to nuke everything, or insta-kill everything, or CC everything. Though the other option is to create awesome nuking or awesome insta-kill or awesome CC - but then who would want to be the Disco/Web bot? Its a tough balance and I dont know if I could do it. But then, I dont charge lots of money for a game so its not really on me. The Devs should be the ones coming up with better ideas for balance. And they should be testing those ideas out on Lamania far more often.


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Maxwell Edison Bailiff Offline HADOUKEN! Posts: 3142 Location: Bologna Joined: Jul 13^th, 2011	Re: Whining Monks Reply #45 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:59pm	Print Post
	That post was as substantive as a styrofoam packing peanut.

	� ��
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kmack Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1329 Joined: Feb 19^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #46 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:35pm	Print Post
	HairyO wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:21pm: Then you risk casters being able to nuke everything, or insta-kill everything, or CC everything. Your casters don't do this?


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NOTpopejubal Epic Poster Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 4096 Location: Let go or get dragged. Joined: Apr 17^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #47 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:04pm	Print Post
	HairyO wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:21pm: Then you risk casters being able to nuke everything, or insta-kill everything, or CC everything. That's a good thing. As long as they have to pick one of those three, I'm delighted.


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HairyO Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 355 Joined: Jun 30^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #48 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:11pm	Print Post
	kmack wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:35pm: Your casters don't do this?� I have opinions. I didnt say I can play well ! NOTpopejubal wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:04pm: That's a good thing.� As long as they have to pick one of those three, I'm delighted. Yeah, I think being able to do 1 of 3 works. The whining from the casters seems to be when changes are made and they are no longer capable of doing all 3. They solo everything, but choose to run in groups only when they want others to see how awesomesauce they are. Maxwell Edison wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:59pm: That post was as substantive as a styrofoam packing peanut. Bit of pot-kettle-black action going on here, wouldnt you say?


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NOTpopejubal Epic Poster Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 4096 Location: Let go or get dragged. Joined: Apr 17^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: Whining Monks Reply #49 - Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:21pm	Print Post
	HairyO wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:11pm: Yeah, I think being able to do 1 of 3 works. The whining from the casters seems to be when changes are made and they are no longer capable of doing all 3. They can do all three on EN and EH. But anyone can beat EN and EH with pretty much anything. Being able to solo those comes exclusively from having some amount of AoE damage and the infinite self healing that comes with having a blue bar. On EE, the only thing that arcane casters have to contribute is DPS and self healing. And their DPS isn't any better than a decent melee. It's true that most decent melee don't have enough self healing to deal with EE, but that's the only real difference.


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