Do monk focused players whine the most?  If so, is it the players or are they right in doing so?  Just wondering as it seems I notice a lot of monk whining.  I admit it could be my perception...

Monk players are probably the biggest whiners, yes.  There was a time when it made sense.  Back when GS handwraps didn't exist and monks couldn't touch other melee class DPS and breaking DR was total nightmare.

Today?  With ToD rings, Alchems, Ivys, Antipode, Grave Wrappings, and the Mabar Wraps you can't complain. 

It sucks that you can't get dragon armor in outfits and the new trees kinda suck ass for unarmed combat, but Monks are still far ahead of Clerics, FvS, and Sorcs for PrE's and build options. 

Basically, they got it in their heads that they were mistreated and they bring back that attitude from long ago anytime something doesn't go their way, even though the original basis for it is long gone.

it would not have anything to do with handwraps being feather_of_sun'ed from the beginning of time.

edit to add i'm to slow

Lots of good gripes...  Any classes the monk lovers think got it worse?  Bards?  The last time I really remember someone looking for them was pre-EDs and Velah, or Axer, because MOAR buffs...  Lots of cleric gnashing now, but that is largely the Silver Flame removing Altar Boys and all...

Just TRing more until some of the enhancement crap resolves.

Persiflage wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:11am:

What about ml 20 metal blank holy/holy burst/anarchic burst or whatever of greater bane ?
Or something with decent prefix/suffix.. impellent of hemorraging.
Is it much worse than other weapon types, or where do you need DR breaking except quite common good.

DR seems less significant than it used to be.  It still maakes a difference, but it seems like a smaller percentage of damage dealt than it used to be.  Also, there's a much wider variety of enemies at "end game" than there was during the All Evil Outsiders era, so Greater Bane is less useful than it once was.

Persiflage wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:11am:


This is something that probably infuriates me the most. This absolute fucking bullshit decision is meant to confine monks and monk splashes to the GMoF destiny and severely restrict what handwrap users can and can't do.

Rather than trying to promote versatility and variety, they are actively trying to shoehorn certain builds into certain EDs. This was a problem with EDs from the get-go.

I don't have issues with DR breaking on my monk. Because I have a light monk. Suck it, dark monks.

Ki finisher abilities are also pretty worthless at low and middle levels when you're soloing because you have to constantly open doors (that are only in the quest in the first place to slow down zergers).  I had a hell of a time playing a Monk the first time I tried until someone I trusted told me "Yeah, just ignore all of the ki abilities except for the +damage strikes".  When I learned to ignore 90% of what a Monk could do, I actually ended up enjoying it.

Wipe wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:


I'd have good covered if I had a ToD ring, but I don't...  At least, not in the right place.  All my toons, pretty much, have ended up being something different to what I thought they'd be when I started    And now I can't raid due to weird, random and foreshortened playtimes and ToD's a wasteland anyway. 

Meh, I'd struggle to slot a ToD ring if I had one these days, to tell the truth.

Wipe wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:


Demons' cold iron DR (particularly EE demonweb) is a pain on  non-light monk-style toons unless you've lucked out and got AML 20 cold iron wraps to craft.  I do have them, now, but I'm talking about comparative difficulty, not absolute...  While I do have a dog in the fight, it's only one dog of many and it's too busy digesting next-door's cat to do much more than growl irritably.

I'm actually not 100% sure how I'm going to solve the DR problem when my main is back to his intended build of a monk-splashed Druid, in the event that DR becomes more of a problem again.  The way things are going, handwraps will be the least of my worries and the build won't be viable anyway by the time I have the past lives done 

HairyO wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:01pm:

Lol.  True.  Many posts about how weak and useless they are after X change.  And yet they still continue to be the best soloing class in the game by far.

Asheras wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 11:38pm:


The spell crit/spellpower fuckarow happened while I was getting to the end of my sorc life, and it induced a mild form of schizophrenia...  (Bear in mind, I had never played a sorc before this.)  Overnight, which happened to coincide with when I went from 18-20, my damage was cut drastically, and that's going from "with no ED" to "with maxed ED".  So yeah, big disappointment.

On the other hand, I couldn't help but notice (what with having run several lives back-to-back) that despite this, it was STILL (much) easier to steamroll content on the sorc than on... well, pretty much anything else.  Admittedly, I switched to Shiradi to farm out the tokens for my next life as DI was disappointing, but still.

Hence the schizophrenia.  On the one hand: "Boooo!  My damage sucks compared to yesterday!  You haz nerfed me and I am very disappoint!".  On the other hand "Yaaaay!  This life is a complete and utter piece of piss!  This is awesome!"

Honestly, I do get why people whine about spell nerfage, but at the same time it's hard to reconcile the "nerfed" caster situation with the state of other classes which are three times as difficult to do the same things with.  I can't even describe how much harder it was to solo the same shit on a monk-splashed cleric (never trying THAT again) compared to the sorc.

I guess it's all down to what you're used to.

As I play multiple classes, I can say that I think Wizards really *did* get the shaft with regard to DC casting (which, let's face it, is the only thing you want a Wizard for over a Sorc), but at the same time it's as nothing compared to the reaming given to Clerics attempting to do the same thing.

Overall, it's the ever-reducing number of viable playstyle options rather than weaknesses of specific classes that really frustrates me.  Being boxed in by quest design to a small subset of abilities that actually "work" is depressing in a game with such a wealth of apparent choices.

This ENH pass seems to be determined to make monks a splash-class.

But yes, they whine a hell of a lot.