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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) U20, already (Read 20400 times)
Starkjade
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U20, already
Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:30pm
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Re: U20, already
Reply #1 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:40pm
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Only recently have we been able to change base XP without altering the amount of favor that players have already earned. We’ve also crossed the hurdle of being able to do it without breaking the formulas for increasing XP with higher difficulties


Are you fucking serious, Turbine hasn't had the ability to  change xp rewards?!!

Quote:
We’ve discovered an unintended constant in the XP formula that prevented longer quest XP from scaling up as much as desired over shorter quest XP.


Bullshit fucking excuse.  Might as well read "One of us tried to make up a formula to keep xp consistent across dungeons and failed horribly because he has no idea how long dungeons take because we don't play our own game."

Hold for Reinforcements, anybody?
  
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GooFY
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Re: U20, already
Reply #2 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:40pm
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Quest XP Changes for Update 20



Since the XP Ransack and Saga features came out in Update 19, we’ve continued to examine ways to improve our XP systems.

We took a hard look at DDO’s epic dungeons – why were some dungeons giving out less XP than we want, and others more? We’ve discovered an unintended constant in the XP formula that prevented longer quest XP from scaling up as much as desired over shorter quest XP. We removed this constant, and scaled up the quest length multiplier. So starting with Update 20, longer epic quests will be worth more XP and shorter quests will be worth less. For comparison, this is more in line with how heroic quests have always scaled their XP between shorter and longer quests.

The next issue we’ve been working on is the ability to change the base XP reward of a live dungeon without side effects. Only recently have we been able to change base XP without altering the amount of favor that players have already earned. We’ve also crossed the hurdle of being able to do it without breaking the formulas for increasing XP with higher difficulties, or with playing in Epic mode. This issue is what had prevented us from being able to address certain dungeons that were worth too little XP, as well as too much XP in a few cases. But now we’ve solved all these problems, and the first batch of dungeon base XP changes will be released in Update 20.
You’ll be able to preview this on Lamannia within the next week or two.
• 4 dungeons will have their XP decreased. These might not necessarily correspond to the high XP/min dungeons that many players run. Our intent is not to punish players who have the skill to defeat a difficult dungeon in a relatively short time - as long as no exploits are involved. Rather, these dungeons were chosen because they are a very large spike of XP compared to other dungeons of the same difficulty, standard play length, and CR.
o Desecrated Temple of Vol
o Mining for Ancient Secrets
o Reclaiming Memories
o The Deadly Package: Agent of the Darguul

• 16 dungeons are receiving an XP increase. They were chosen for similar reasons – that their base XP was too low compared to other dungeons of the same difficulty, standard play length, and CR. Not coincidentally, we’ve also received a lot of feedback from the players about many of these dungeons too. They cross a broad variety of content packs. Some are in the teen-levels like Cannith, Droaam & Xoriat. Others are in lower CRs like Carnival and Sentinels. This is only a first-phase list. We are considering other dungeons we’re looking at for a post-U20 second phase XP increase.
o Acute Delirium
o Bargain of Blood
o Bastion of Power
o Blown to Bits
o Partycrashers
o Power Play
o Schemes of the Enemy
o Spies in the House
o Storm the Beaches
o The Black Loch
o The Lord of Eyes
o The Lord of Stone
o The Tide Turns
o The Weapons Shipment
o Undermine
o Wrath of the Flame

We are setting aside time before Update 20 releases for further tuning of XP numbers. So please take a look once this Lamannia build goes up, and give us any thoughts, concerns, or praise you may have!

- PurpleFooz – Lead Designer

*********************

Want it formatted? Use the link ;-P
  
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GooFY
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Re: U20, already
Reply #3 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:42pm
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"For comparison, this is more in line with how heroic quests have always scaled their XP between shorter and longer quests."

So now Epic XP will make just as much sense as Heroic XP always has.  Cheesy
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #4 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:52pm
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GooFY wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:42pm:
So now Epic XP will make just as much sense as Heroic XP always has.


Awesome!  Wait....  Smiley
  
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bob the builder
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Re: U20, already
Reply #5 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:55pm
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Why the fuck would you program it in a way that has the XP calculated for a quest using some formula?

There are a finite amount of quests in the game, less than 500... Just set the fucking XP for each quest separately... put it in a fucking table, so thatyou can just change the value as needed.

I don't understand this design decision at all.
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #6 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 5:05pm
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bob the builder wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:55pm:
Why the fuck would you program it in a way that has the XP calculated for a quest using some formula?

There are a finite amount of quests in the game, less than 500... Just set the fucking XP for each quest separately... put it in a fucking table, so thatyou can just change the value as needed.

I don't understand this design decision at all.



It makes sense because their basic reasoning is Turbine
  

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Disavowed wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:51pm:
Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration.

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Aeolwind
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Re: U20, already
Reply #7 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 5:05pm
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bob the builder wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:55pm:
I don't understand this design decision at all.


Lazy.  They wanted an algo to calculate XP for them so they didn't have too.  Unfortunately, the algo they settled on is horrible and utterly inaccurate.
  
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Azog
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Re: U20, already
Reply #8 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 5:14pm
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I guess the XP decrease in that 4 quest will work more than well.
The XP increase...that will be another story.
And then, of course, some new horrible bug will appear.
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #9 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 5:24pm
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I have it on good authority, and it is evident if you read between the lines of the linked post, that XP is determined procedurally. Which is why they haven't been able to change quest XP easily.

Looks like, from that post, it's integrated with a number of other functions like difficulty scaling and favor.

I'm glad they are making an effort to untangle the formulas, that were probably written a long time ago, so that they can do some long overdue balancing. Especially with the new daily xp system that encourages more of a variety of questing.

I think I would rather have had them spend time fixing bugs though. None of the XP is that out of control.
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #10 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 5:33pm
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I read this as:

"Look Shinny. Ignore the exploit problems".
  

"The court heard that Duffy has Asperger's syndrome and suffers with alcohol problems."

Or as we call it here: Mod status.
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Re: U20, already
Reply #11 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 6:21pm
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What they should have done is tied XP to things that are supposed to earn XP.  Slain Monsters, Traps disabled, Loot earned, puzzles solved, etc.  That way, if you zerg thru the traps and kill nothing but the end boss in a quest, you get shit XP.

The base XP should be crap.  The XP increase for getting Conquest, Ransack, Disabling, spotting secret doors, etc, should be jacked up.  With additional bonuses for puzzles.  That way you reward running the quest, not exploiting the fact that you can just run to the end and kill one guy and get 60-70% of the same XP as a full run.  If you can zerg it 3 times in the time it takes to get 1 full run in, you win on XP/min. 

The above would completely fuck up my TR plans and typical way of running most quests.  It would probably make people hate Turbine even more.  Luckily, they can't do it that way and never will.  But, to me, that is the correct way to do XP in D&D.  Not just vary it by how long it takes to run through the map.
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #12 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 6:40pm
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I think the XP thing is a long time coming. But the fact that they are only reducing 4 dungeons and boosting 16 shows they really still arent doing anything significant.

As for U20, it will be good to be able to LR my Iconic mules I set up, to make the favor unlocking easier (because I stupidly thought Morninglord was a battle cleric and went for a melee build and I now know they are pretty much useless compared to a caster build).
  
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Aeolwind
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Re: U20, already
Reply #13 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 6:43pm
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Asheras wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 6:21pm:
The base XP should be crap.  The XP increase for getting Conquest, Ransack, Disabling, spotting secret doors, etc, should be jacked up.


Sneaking/Invis'ing through should still be a viable option.
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #14 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 7:28pm
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Asheras wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 6:21pm:
Slain Monsters, Traps disabled, Loot earned, puzzles solved, etc.  That way, if you zerg thru the traps and kill nothing but the end boss in a quest, you get shit XP.


U mad bro?
  

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Re: U20, already
Reply #15 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 7:37pm
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I feel like I should be laughing at these release notes, but I missed the punchline.

HairyO wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 6:40pm:
I think the XP thing is a long time coming. But the fact that they are only reducing 4 dungeons and boosting 16 shows they really still arent doing anything significant.

This.  Instead of taking baby steps, they should have normalized quest XP and then bumped XP for the shitty XP curve areas before telling us.  I don't want to see the sausage getting made.

  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #16 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 7:45pm
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Aeolwind wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 6:43pm:
Sneaking/Invis'ing through should still be a viable option.


Discreet Bonus could also be jacked up in his design idea.
  

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Re: U20, already
Reply #17 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 8:50pm
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On one hand, I can't believe they are only adjusting 16 quests up.  On the other hand, I'm amazed they are only adjusting 4 quests down.

I'd be willing to bet that the 10 quests that get run the most get completed more than the bottom 50%.
  
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Starkjade
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Re: U20, already
Reply #18 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 9:10pm
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Dr_tank2vich wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 5:33pm:
I read this as:

"Look Shinny. Ignore the exploit problems".


Yeah, same...

I'm predicting a Producer announcement regarding Epic TR before the weekend that is all candy and rainbows.
  

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Re: U20, already
Reply #19 - Oct 8th, 2013 at 10:57pm
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QuantumFX wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
Discreet Bonus could also be jacked up in his design idea.

Possibly, but Ive gotten discreet at da red before.
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #20 - Oct 9th, 2013 at 3:21am
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Aeolwind wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 10:57pm:
Possibly, but Ive gotten discreet at da red before.


Insidious Cunning in Red Alert is the best thing ever.
  

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Re: U20, already
Reply #21 - Oct 9th, 2013 at 5:03am
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Starkjade wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 9:10pm:
I'm predicting a Producer announcement regarding Epic TR before the weekend that is all shit and hailstones


ftfy. But yes, Glin did rear his ugly head after repeatedly being criticised for not making an announcement when he said he would (i.e. a week or so ago) and stated he would pipe up by the end of this week.
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #22 - Oct 9th, 2013 at 6:43am
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bob the builder wrote on Oct 8th, 2013 at 4:55pm:
Why the fuck would you program it in a way that has the XP calculated for a quest using some formula?

There are a finite amount of quests in the game, less than 500... Just set the fucking XP for each quest separately... put it in a fucking table, so thatyou can just change the value as needed.

I don't understand this design decision at all.


The
  
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Re: U20, already
Reply #23 - Oct 9th, 2013 at 6:47am
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pnellesen wrote on Oct 9th, 2013 at 6:43am:
The


+1 Internetz
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: U20, already
Reply #24 - Oct 9th, 2013 at 12:55pm
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The sad part is, I still won't run the quests they raised the experience for.
  
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