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Quak Dragon Raider Offline Posts: 298 Joined: Sep 24^th, 2013	Re: Banned Reply #200 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 1:57pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 1:45pm: Thread already locked with the following from Tolero : so they have a super duper logging in without password required tool but they cant delete from db? fishy

	http://youtu.be/rr1DSgjhRqE?t=1m23s
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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #201 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:00pm	Print Post
	Legato wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 1:56pm: Once you are unbanned, let us know how badly they emptied your pockets... Will do. I was part of the first wave, so I'll be unbanned Monday night sometime. Unless they decide I'm making too much trouble and ban me for life.


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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9985 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #202 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:02pm	Print Post
	Quak wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 1:57pm: so they have a super duper logging in without password required tool but they cant delete from db? fishy Not that fishy if they have the problem some of us pointed with all those database weirdness... Their DBA is not good enough to get the right queries, they have to log in the account. and while I'm at it : those who think the TR cache is safe. It's NOT. It's tied to a character, it's just another container that holds stuff like any 'fixed container' [ read : Bank, Shared Bank ], so it can be accessed with the right query.

	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Wyni Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 129 Joined: Mar 8^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #203 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:09pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:02pm: Not that fishy if they have the problem some of us pointed with all those database weirdness... Their DBA is not good enough to get the right queries, they have to log in the account. and while I'm at it : those who think the TR cache is safe. It's NOT. It's tied to a character, it's just another container that holds stuff like any 'fixed container' [ read : Bank, Shared Bank ], so it can be accessed with the right query. If they are logging into toons on the guild boat, the guild chest may not be safe either.


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no. DQ Assaulter Offline Just no. Posts: 454 Joined: Oct 10^th, 2013	Re: Banned Reply #204 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:10pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:02pm: and while I'm at it : those who think the TR cache is safe. It's NOT. It's tied to a character, it's just another container that holds stuff like any 'fixed container' [ read : Bank, Shared Bank ], so it can be accessed with the right query. Well, yeah. They should be able to access everything on their database in theory. However the real question is and always was, "is it safe from Turbine?"


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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #205 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:12pm	Print Post
	Wyni wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:09pm: If they are logging into toons on the guild boat, the guild chest may not be safe either. If they start taking stuff out of the guild chest, that's a whole other shit storm waiting to happen.


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Wyni Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 129 Joined: Mar 8^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #206 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:13pm	Print Post
	Oh, and Tolero, you're 100% full of shit. Another one of my guildies had a toon of his logged into the day after my ban. He was at work at the time and had no idea what was happening. He was not banned at the time, nor has he been banned since. That toon did not do any duping. Please tell how that was "disciplinary action" in stead of an investigatory one. EDIT:At the time, we dismissed it as a display error
	« Last Edit: Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:16pm by Wyni »

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Luxgolg Shroud Slacker Offline So many bugs Posts: 1221 Location: Over there Joined: Oct 2^nd, 2012 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #207 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:17pm	Print Post
	LOL I get to do this HERE now... (TL:DR= they can do what they want) 6. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose. 7. INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS� FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT. They can do what they want. And you cant hold them responsible. Ohh...and #4 is of note... 4. Consent to Monitor. When the Game is running, Turbine may monitor your computer for the use of programs that violate Section 1. You hereby grant Turbine permission to monitor your computer for purposes of identifying such use and communicating potential violations to Turbine. (section 1 f. You may not exploit the Game, or any portion thereof, for any commercial purpose;) I want a donut

	Frog on all servers, but Cannith is home.
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Wyni Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 129 Joined: Mar 8^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #208 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:24pm	Print Post
	Luxgolg wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:17pm: LOL I get to do this HERE now... (TL:DR= they can do what they want) I don't give fuck what Turbine can or can't do legally because it will never be in my best interest to sue them for anything. What I care about is them being a shady, poorly run, poorly staffed, pile of shit company that doesn't deserve my money or my time on their servers.


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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #209 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:30pm	Print Post
	That didn't take as long as I thought it would. Greetings rest, Thank you for your phone call. I can confirm that Customer Service may have accessed your character in order to resolve issues related with a violation of the Code of Conduct. If you have any questions regarding the violation or our access to the character, you may review the Terms of Service, Code of Conduct, and our Privacy Policy links below. Please note that Turbine takes account security very seriously and I can assure you that no one here at Turbine has access to your password, and these characters were accessed through a tool without the ability to see your password. TOS CoC Privacy Policy Thank you, Customer Service Agent Alkaid Turbine, powered by our fans. If you reply, please do not change the default subject line. This will ensure that your update is added to your existing ticket. Search our FAQ or request additional support at support.turbine.com Visit our Account Management Website to review your account. Follow us on Twitter! @LOTROSupport @DDOSupport @AsheronsCallCS


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Luxgolg Shroud Slacker Offline So many bugs Posts: 1221 Location: Over there Joined: Oct 2^nd, 2012 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #210 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:35pm	Print Post
	Wyni wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:24pm: I don't give fuck what Turbine can or can't do legally because it will never be in my best interest to sue them for anything. What I care about is them being a shady, poorly run, poorly staffed, pile of shit company that doesn't deserve my money or my time on their servers. You blind fucktard...you agree to this crap when you log in. /snip "What I care about is that doesn't deserve my money or my time on their servers." DONT PLAY!

	Frog on all servers, but Cannith is home.
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Wyni Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 129 Joined: Mar 8^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #211 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:38pm	Print Post
	Luxgolg wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:35pm: DONT PLAY! That was my point. I'm so glad you agree with me.


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bob the builder Abbot Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 772 Joined: Apr 19^th, 2011	Re: Banned Reply #212 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:40pm	Print Post
	Quote: We also keep logs of all our GM�s activity as a further monitor to ensure that only authorized GMs are performing senior-manager-approved disciplinary measures that require a character login. This part makes me laugh... they can't even accurately what the players are doing... I doubt they have real tools to log what the GMs are doing in regards to deleting/accessing items on toons.


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OnePercenter Advocatus Diaboli Offline Ants Eat Dead Grasshoppers Posts: 9985 Joined: Dec 4^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #213 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:46pm	Print Post
	Luxgolg wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:17pm: 4.� �� Consent to Monitor. When the Game is running, Turbine may monitor your computer for the use of programs that violate Section 1. You hereby grant Turbine permission to monitor your computer for purposes of identifying such use and communicating potential violations to Turbine. (section 1 f.� �� You may not exploit the Game, or any portion thereof, for any commercial purpose I want a donut Hmmm...

	Feynman wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 4:57pm: One thing for everyone who is a "skeptic" on this issue: Insurance companies are basing their underwriting on the assumption that it is real. They are refusing to write policies on homes that are likely to be in danger from rising seas 20 years from now, even though the resale rate of the homes is so high that they could keep writing policies for another 10 years and still not have to pay out on 1 policy in 5, but that would be irresponsible. Unethical, as well, but that's never stopped anyone before. IMARANGER wrote on Jan 11^th, 2014 at 6:12pm: It is fairly natural to assume that the fair price for the pot is the fair value of the resources I needed to make the pot plus the fair value of my labor. IMARANGER wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 4:56pm: You were right this time, OnePercenter.� iliveyourdream13 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:02pm: #bringbackreadingcomprehension
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Aeolwind HERALD OF HATE Offline DDO: More broken than peanut brittle Posts: 2074 Location: Sarlona Joined: Apr 13^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #214 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:47pm	Print Post
	Them having to log into characters individually makes me (Laugh uncontrollably, but also) feel like they aren't in a database and are instead stored save files.


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karatekid Self-Proclaimed Puppy Farmer Offline Posts: 4830 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2012	Re: Banned Reply #215 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:49pm	Print Post
	Flav wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:02pm: Not that fishy if they have the problem some of us pointed with all those database weirdness... Their DBA is not good enough to get the right queries, they have to log in the account. and while I'm at it : those who think the TR cache is safe. It's NOT. It's tied to a character, it's just another container that holds stuff like any 'fixed container' [ read : Bank, Shared Bank ], so it can be accessed with the right query. Speculating, but it's also possible it is simpler to use the in-game interface than it is to delete items that are represented in-game as a single item, but are in fact composites of records in 2 or more tables or fields.


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LordPiglet Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 660 Location: H-Town Joined: Jan 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #216 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:50pm	Print Post
	Quak wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 1:57pm: so they have a super duper logging in without password required tool but they cant delete from db? fishy Basically, they have no idea what was duped, so they're going in and deleting what they think was duped.


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LordPiglet Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 660 Location: H-Town Joined: Jan 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #217 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:52pm	Print Post
	karatekid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:49pm: Speculating, but it's also possible it is simpler to use the in-game interface than it is to delete items that are represented in-game as a single item, but are in fact composites of records in 2 or more tables or fields. If that's the case, then their database is a miserable pos.


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karatekid Self-Proclaimed Puppy Farmer Offline Posts: 4830 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2012	Re: Banned Reply #218 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:53pm	Print Post
	Aeolwind wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:47pm: Them having to log into characters individually makes me (Laugh uncontrollably, but also) feel like they aren't in a database and are instead stored save files. oh shit, I hadn't thought of that... you may be right!


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LordPiglet Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 660 Location: H-Town Joined: Jan 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #219 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:53pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:30pm: That didn't take as long as I thought it would. Greetings rest, Thank you for your phone call. I can confirm that Customer Service may have accessed your character in order to resolve issues related with a violation of the Code of Conduct. If you have any questions regarding the violation or our access to the character, you may review the Terms of Service, Code of Conduct, and our Privacy Policy links below. Please note that Turbine takes account security very seriously and I can assure you that no one here at Turbine has access to your password, and these characters were accessed through a tool without the ability to see your password. TOS CoC Privacy Policy Thank you, Customer Service Agent Alkaid Turbine, powered by our fans. If you reply, please do not change the default subject line. This will ensure that your update is added to your existing ticket. Search our FAQ or request additional support at support.turbine.com Visit our Account Management Website to review your account. Follow us on Twitter! @LOTROSupport @DDOSupport @AsheronsCallCS How does confirming that they may have done something actually confirm anything?


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NOTdarth Puppy Farmer Offline Save the Planet, Kill Yourself Posts: 1495 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #220 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 3:04pm	Print Post
	Someone I know got back after a 7 day vacation. They deleted nothing. He still has 500+ stacks of everything.


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karatekid Self-Proclaimed Puppy Farmer Offline Posts: 4830 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2012	Re: Banned Reply #221 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 3:07pm	Print Post
	Just out of curiosity, I logged in and checked my guild list (all my alts) for how long it's been since they logged in. 6 months. So it appears to be at least somewhat triaged by those who exploited... as opposed to my first paranoid thought, which was that they were including the asshole caucus. Side note: my first daily dice roll in 6 months rolled a 99...+2 tome and an 800 experience 20-sided die-looking thingie. If I remember in 30-60 days, I'll roll it again and see if the roll is always that high given time passage.


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karatekid Self-Proclaimed Puppy Farmer Offline Posts: 4830 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2012	Re: Banned Reply #222 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 3:09pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:30pm: Thank you, Customer Service Agent Alkaid OMG Al Quaida's infiltrated Turbine.


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Sham Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Random Effects on Named Loot! - No one ever Posts: 685 Location: Siberia Joined: May 28^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #223 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 3:09pm	Print Post
	Any scars in the abdominal region? Kidding aside has any gm logged into his account during the 7 day ban? Those with 14 days may not be as lucky.
	« Last Edit: Oct 16^th, 2013 at 3:12pm by Sham »

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LordPiglet Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 660 Location: H-Town Joined: Jan 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Banned Reply #224 - Oct 16^th, 2013 at 3:11pm	Print Post
	Luxgolg wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:17pm: LOL I get to do this HERE now... (TL:DR= they can do what they want) 6.� �� LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose. 7.� �� INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS� FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT. They can do what they want. And you cant hold them responsible. Ohh...and #4 is of note... 4.� �� Consent to Monitor. When the Game is running, Turbine may monitor your computer for the use of programs that violate Section 1. You hereby grant Turbine permission to monitor your computer for purposes of identifying such use and communicating potential violations to Turbine. (section 1 f.� �� You may not exploit the Game, or any portion thereof, for any commercial purpose;) I want a donut You do realize that EULA's aren't bullet proof.�
	« Last Edit: Oct 16^th, 2013 at 3:12pm by LordPiglet »

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