At the risk of re-railing the thread, I don't know if there really is that big of a difference -- except for what you said, that one way is Turbine-approved. Whatever is Turbine-approved is, by default, allowed and okay, since they are the final arbiters of what is allowed or not since it's their game.

As much as people say that twists make TRs overpowered in lowbie quests and the lowbie experience "not fun" for everyone else, well, that's what lowbie twinking has always been about. Even Turbine accommodates it in various ways such as via past lives and gear such as the quiver of alacrity (usable at level 1 despite it being a raid item) and green steel (usable at level 11/12 despite it coming from a higher-level raid, or at least until recent changes). It's not as if people couldn't zerg previously and twists were what finally allowed them to do so. My understanding is that casters basically do this all the time when TR'ing (rounding up mobs and red alert signifies when it's time to do an AoE) although admittedly I've never played one.

A lot of the crowd will post about "how the game is meant to be played" but always leaves who does the meanting. It's almost always a way to say "you're wrong because the game should be played my way" without going into just why that poster is such an authoritative source and gets to decide how other players play. Ultimately it's Turbine that decides how the game is meant to be played, and they both set as well as enforce the rules to get players to comply with whatever are allowable ways to play as decided by Turbine.

Same thing with the working as intended (WAI) crowd. Even when I posted Turbine's direct words on exploits saying that perching is fine as long as you don't break the monster AI, people still came back and said well that's not how the game is meant to be played blah blah blah and that Turbine didn't intend for you to do it. I think that's when I realized that the people aren't really out to convince others or examine the merits of the different positions on each issue, but just posting for the feeling of moral superiority via statements like "well you know I'm right and you just won't admit it" (in other words, "I'm better than you because I'm right and you're wrong") and "well that's not the way you're supposed to do it" (in other words, "I'm better than you because I play the right way and you don't").

For whatever psychiatric reason a lot of people post on the DDO forums just to have that feeling of moral superiority over other people instead of actually trying to drive the discussion forward or bring up new points; I think I mentioned elsewhere that most of the biggest OR-bashers are actually the biggest elitist pricks on Orien (for the most part, we don't usually mind pugs as long as they follow directions so the raids/quests go smoothly), and whenever our members posted on the DDO forums to try to improve the state of play the threads just got flamed until they got closed so those people could score political points (why Turbine never banned the posters that derail those threads in the first place, I have no idea). Obviously the Orien server is infested with these types of people. That's why the other OR members stopped trying to post advice about how to play in the Orien forums and why I tend to post to the forum community at large rather than be specifically devoted to one server.

same answer I always give:

this game isn't competitive. You never play against another player. Thus, it is totally irrelevant if someone uses a box, or uses twists to level, or plays HC Permadeath.

I give fully less than 2 shits what anyone else does in this game.

Cairnoir wrote on Nov 17^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

Is that your attempt at wit? Is it you're inarticulate? Are you yourself Chinese? Speak the king's English like a good world citizen, help me out here man.

Yobai wrote on Nov 18^th, 2013 at 12:23am:

I could have sworn I saw something like that in Chauvet a few years back...

Most racist..? Although elves look like it, maybe dwarfs in a amusing way thinking they are best of everything... Would also say dark elves as they already seem to hate most...

Turbine haven't monetized twists in heroic levels. Classification : Bug.

Quak wrote on Nov 18^th, 2013 at 3:21am:


Not all of us.

Er... "them", I mean to say.

AnalFissure wrote on Nov 18^th, 2013 at 7:44am:


Yeah.. how fucking dense are you?

they sold "epic destinies" they haven't monetized "heroic destinies" yet, thus it's a bug.

Epoch wrote on Nov 17^th, 2013 at 7:19pm:



Today's Daily Affirmation has been brought to you by Epoch and the state of Alaska and the numbers potato and carrot.

Vanshilar wrote on Nov 17^th, 2013 at 11:49pm:


I'm sorry, can't read WoTs. My ophtalmologist  said so.

OldCoaly wrote on Nov 18^th, 2013 at 4:09pm:

It's not even that wot'y.  It's long but it has paragraphs and punctuation.

Vanshilar wrote on Nov 17^th, 2013 at 11:49pm:


The whole post is great, but this part resonated with one of my pet peeves. I hate it coming from Turdbine and I hate it from players. Don't tell me how to have fun with entertainment I'm paying for.

That attitude is behind the moronic idea to force sagas for HoW (you should play a variety of quests) and the selfish calls to remove dungeon scaling (you should have to fill a PUG).

I'm really sorry for you (the people forcing, not Vanshilar) if you can't get people to join you in what you want to do, but don't dictate how people "should" play the game, that just drives off even more players from a game you're already killing with bugs and gratuitous changes.