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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Many Shot does exist in real life (Read 27590 times)
NaturalHazard
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #125 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 12:55am
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The throwing sticks the aborigines used were pretty amazing, and similar ones were used in parts of Africa and the western usa in prehistoric times.  Some were really heavy and quite large.

I wonder why the bow never made it down under..... hmmm  I sense that I am about to lose several hours in google.

Thanks great thread


I think part of it is.............the indigenous australians are a very old culture...........ancient in fact...........might of been the oldest that was still going.

They entered and stayed in australia before the bow was invented elsewhere maybe?
  
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Eye Dash
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #126 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 5:00am
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Notice that he keeps his movement minimal while trying to be precise,and that he doesn't move backwards while shooting.
He can pierce chainmail at short range,but due to strenght won't do shit at long range,nor will he ever pierce the plate armor.
  
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NaturalHazard
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #127 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 5:16am
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Eye Dash wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 5:00am:
Notice that he keeps his movement minimal while trying to be precise,and that he doesn't move backwards while shooting.
He can pierce chainmail at short range,but due to strenght won't do shit at long range,nor will he ever pierce the plate armor.


You need a bow 4-6 times more draw weight to even think of doing that. And the proper arrows/arrowheads
  
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Azog
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #128 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:45am
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Eye Dash wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 5:00am:
Notice that he keeps his movement minimal while trying to be precise,and that he doesn't move backwards while shooting.
He can pierce chainmail at short range,but due to strenght won't do shit at long range,nor will he ever pierce the plate armor.


It is said that a good plate armor was impenetrable to arrows and even to bolts, even with a 100lb longbow. Weak points:  the eyes, joints, and some thiner places at the legs.
Shit plate armors were shit and that is not the discussion.
  
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Azog
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #129 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:37am
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NaturalHazard wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 12:55am:
I think part of it is.............the indigenous australians are a very old culture...........ancient in fact...........might of been the oldest that was still going.

They entered and stayed in australia before the bow was invented elsewhere maybe?


Well, there are lots of foks that just despised bow and arrows: see the ibeerian (Spain) or the Vikings. It was known and used for hunting, but really introduced as the composite bow by the roman impire. As the Roman Impire vanishes, the composite bows also disapears (X century or so).

Something about bows and arrows in Australia, was interesting

http://austhrutime.com/weapons.htm
  
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Eye Dash
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #130 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:54am
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It is said that a good plate armor was impenetrable to arrows and even to bolts, even with a 100lb longbow. Weak points:  the eyes, joints, and some thiner places at the legs.
Shit plate armors were shit and that is not the discussion.


The most common way of disposing an armored knight was tipping him off balance,and making him fall on his back with the weight of the armor pinning him to the floor.That would leave his belly open,providing the opening for the opponent to stab him with the sword.
Knights carried "daggers of mercy" to later execute fataly wounded enemies by slitting their throat,in order to spare them from the long and gruesome death.

The crossbow was the evolution of the missile weapon,since it was able to pierce the heavy armors.
  
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Azog
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #131 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 8:10am
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Eye Dash wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:54am:
The most common way of disposing an armored knight was tipping him off balance,and making him fall on his back with the weight of the armor pinning him to the floor.That would leave his belly open,providing the opening for the opponent to stab him with the sword.
Knights carried "daggers of mercy" to later execute fataly wounded enemies by slitting their throat,in order to spare them from the long and gruesome death.


They used also the thrusting swords or war hammers to get through the armor.

Eye Dash wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:54am:
The crossbow was the evolution of the missile weapon,since it was able to pierce the heavy armors.




No, not really. And this is a 15th century crossbow. The Spanish Breastplate, padded, was really almost impenetrable (until fire weapons)

But really heavy armor was very rare and very expensive. Even today, a good heavy armor costs you around 10.000€

« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2013 at 8:17am by »  
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raybob
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #132 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 10:07am
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They used also the thrusting swords or war hammers to get through the armor.




No, not really. And this is a 15th century crossbow. The Spanish Breastplate, padded, was really almost impenetrable (until fire weapons)

But really heavy armor was very rare and very expensive. Even today, a good heavy armor costs you around 10.000€



They might have better results if they mounted the armor on a dummy to better simulate someone actually wearing it.  As depicted, the armor is moving when hit and thus dissipates the energy of the bolt.  Not saying it would penetrate, but it would make for a more realistic test.
  
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #133 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 1:19pm
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Eye Dash wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:54am:
The most common way of disposing an armored knight was tipping him off balance,and making him fall on his back with the weight of the armor pinning him to the floor.


You are an idiot.
  
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Azog
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #134 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:29pm
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raybob wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 10:07am:
They might have better results if they mounted the armor on a dummy to better simulate someone actually wearing it.  As depicted, the armor is moving when hit and thus dissipates the energy of the bolt.  Not saying it would penetrate, but it would make for a more realistic test.

That is right. It is a bit amateur, but it is what I got.
Anyway, I don´t know what Spanish king / lord was killed by a crossbow bolt that whent through his armpit, as he was rising his left arm to show the troops were to storm the castle.
Nobody know who was the sniper. Maybe it was luck, maybe amazing skill with the crossbow.

Searching on the net I found this also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_de_Beaujeu
  
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NaturalHazard
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #135 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:59pm
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Glenalth wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 1:19pm:
You are an idiot.


Well I don't think it is the most common way, but knocking anyone down does make them more vulnerable, and if the guy is falling off a horse even in armour he could be winded or even injured, disable then kill, grab his arms hold him down, slide a dagger in somewhere,  bash him repeatedly on the head with something, even a big rock FFS. Armour doesn't make you invincible. One unskilled guy in full plate against some skilled guys with nothing not even weapons and they could kill him, surround him get him to attack, tackle him from his blind side, hold him down then kill him, the armor of course makes it harder. Even a skilled fighter in it against multiple unarmored but experienced fighters would likely go down, but would be more likely to make them pay for their victory.

Didn't the swiss as lightly armored infantry have great success against armored knights with pikes and halberds and other weapons? And most of these guys where from the peasant-farmer classes?
  
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NaturalHazard
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #136 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:13pm
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raybob wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 10:07am:
They might have better results if they mounted the armor on a dummy to better simulate someone actually wearing it.  As depicted, the armor is moving when hit and thus dissipates the energy of the bolt.  Not saying it would penetrate, but it would make for a more realistic test.


Are there the crossbows that you needed a winch to pull back the string? Arbalest? Though it doesn't penetrate......i see some dents and even pretty serious dents could it do some injury to the wearer being hit with that force and having it pushed in?

Can they armor the horses and protect them as well as the human, even with plate I doubt they can get it to cover the entire horse with barding? And if the horses are being injured, killed, enough horse men falling, stumbling over their peers could that do damage?

And yeah they could attack on foot, they say they could run in the best plates sure, but how long could they fight in them? it must be pretty exhausting though and when your tired it makes everything harder, In rough terrain?

Then there is the cost?.........
  
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Eye Dash
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #137 - Dec 9th, 2013 at 8:35am
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Glenalth wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 1:19pm:
You are an idiot.


You are an offspring of a syphilitic whore and an aids infected faggot.
Cheers!  Smiley
  
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Eye Dash
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #138 - Dec 9th, 2013 at 8:56am
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NaturalHazard wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Well I don't think it is the most common way, but knocking anyone down does make them more vulnerable


Oh,I probably should have specified that this applies in the case of two knights in heavy armor fighting each other on foot.
  
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #139 - Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:17am
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NaturalHazard wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Well I don't think it is the most common way, but knocking anyone down does make them more vulnerable, and if the guy is falling off a horse even in armour he could be winded or even injured, disable then kill, grab his arms hold him down, slide a dagger in somewhere,  bash him repeatedly on the head with something, even a big rock FFS. Armour doesn't make you invincible. One unskilled guy in full plate against some skilled guys with nothing not even weapons and they could kill him, surround him get him to attack, tackle him from his blind side, hold him down then kill him, the armor of course makes it harder. Even a skilled fighter in it against multiple unarmored but experienced fighters would likely go down, but would be more likely to make them pay for their victory.

Didn't the swiss as lightly armored infantry have great success against armored knights with pikes and halberds and other weapons? And most of these guys where from the peasant-farmer classes?


A knight would never have been pinned under the weight of his own armor. It's just one sentence in a load of bullshit that highlights that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Knocking someone over is a good plan though, and in a knight's case would have made it easier to capture and ransom them instead of killing them.
  
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Eye Dash
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #140 - Dec 9th, 2013 at 2:19pm
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Glenalth wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:17am:
A knight would never have been pinned under the weight of his own armor. It's just one sentence in a load of bullshit that highlights that they have no idea what they are talking about.


Maybe not pinned as imobilised,but he would have one hell of a time getting up.

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Knocking someone over is a good plan though, and in a knight's case would have made it easier to capture and ransom them instead of killing them.


If they were a wealthy noble maybe.This is Europe we're talking about.The degree of hatred between the warring parties/nations would often dictate the treatment of the enemy.
  
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #141 - Dec 9th, 2013 at 2:56pm
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I think people forget, knights are way different back in those days then portrayed on the telly. They lived in their armor, there were many that could jump on the back of their horse in it.
  

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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #142 - Dec 9th, 2013 at 3:09pm
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Epoch wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 2:56pm:
I think people forget, knights are way different back in those days then portrayed on the telly. They lived in their armor, there were many that could jump on the back of their horse in it.

This.  If you wear around 100+ pounds every day for a year, it feels normal.  Just like adding on 100lbs of blubber in a year because you quit working out.  It becomes the norm.

Each piece is lashed to your body individually, then too each other in key places.  Distributes the weight nicely.
  
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #143 - Dec 9th, 2013 at 10:09pm
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Eye Dash wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 2:19pm:
Maybe not pinned as imobilised,but he would have one hell of a time getting up.


...and there you go again.

40lbs of armor that has it's weight spread along the entire body isn't going to immobilize any trained soldier.


Somewhat related video:
  
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #144 - Dec 9th, 2013 at 10:16pm
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Glenalth wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 11:17am:
A knight would never have been pinned under the weight of his own armor. It's just one sentence in a load of bullshit that highlights that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Knocking someone over is a good plan though, and in a knight's case would have made it easier to capture and ransom them instead of killing them.


Yeah I meant knocking anyone down its still done today, the armour wont weight down someone so that he can't get back up, it might slow him a little bit but that't about it, if it was so awkward that they could be unable to get back up...........they would not even consider fighting in it in the first place. If it was that awkward it would make it so hard to balance and swing fight standing up, even on horseback.
  
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Eye Dash
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Re: Many Shot does exist in real life
Reply #145 - Dec 10th, 2013 at 4:10am
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Glenalth wrote on Dec 9th, 2013 at 10:09pm:
...and there you go again.

40lbs of armor that has it's weight spread along the entire body isn't going to immobilize any trained soldier.


Somewhat related video:


That's abit more than 18 kilos,and would be the lightest possible armor.

See this http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/digital/fact-vs-fiction/medieval-knig...
  
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