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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) A new era for LAMA land. (Read 13170 times)
TractorsareEpic
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A new era for LAMA land.
Jan 21st, 2014 at 3:57pm
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https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434895-like-the-legend-of-the-phoenix-...

From Maj:

Quote:
Greetings!
As you may have heard, we are shutting down Mournlands. What is Mournlands some of you may ask-well, it's our Fight Club. It was a server that had a group of players that the development team used for focus testing, opinions and reality checking the changes to the game. They have been extremely helpful over the years and I think I speak for all of QA and Development in saying thank you. The help from them even recently in the enhancement pass and the TR pass were invaluable. Again thank you Mournlanders, you know who you are.

So from the ashes are new beginnings. Instead of hiding behind a veil of secrecy, the developers, QA and the game will be out in the open on a public test shard. We will be pushing out early builds to Lammania—just as ugly and wart filled as what would have been seen on Mournlands. Devs will communicate directly in the Lamannia part of the forums.

So in essence you, the public, the players, are the new Mournlands. Everyone now has a voice.

The thought is we want to hear more opinions, and as early as possible. There will be some growing pains—Developers –and QA can be a superstitious lot—but over the past 6 months we have become more comfortable talking about things publicly and earlier than ever before. It has been kind of awesome.

Lamma will be run a bit different. It will not be up all the time, and be on a focused schedule. Why? We want developers and employees to have more interaction on the server than we have seen in the past. I admit I have wanted this for a long time.

So here is the first shot. Lamannia will be updated later this week with an Alpha build. This is super early, and you get to see all the half dones, and warts.
The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar and Thunderholme landscape will be open for VIPs. Haunted Halls should take about 1.5 hours to complete if you do no optionals. It will take up to 5 hours if you complete everything. Yes, it is an old school early D&D style module. It's huge. This will be opened up in later Lamannia deployments to everyone, but with VIP's come the perks of first peek.
There are some things that you will notice:
Loot is not finished. Not even close. Matter of fact, most of it is placeholder stuff.
Deco is not finished. Yes some rooms are bare.
Monsters are not balanced yet. Good luck.
VO (Voice overs) work is about half done.

You may come across weird systems and placeholders--half built skills and whatnot. Most should be turned off and hidden, but you never know.
This is a build straight out of development, so there is no optimization yet on the new areas. Some slowdown on landscape is completely possible.
Text is not finished, expect random TBDs and half-finished things.
Gameplay should be fairly complete...enough to get a good idea of what the developers were thinking. We are very interested in bugs-of course- and how things 'feel'. Too hard, easy, long short exc.
Lamannia will only be open though Monday morning. We will reopen it with other stuff in the near future..
Squeak and Kookie will still be around to make life easier.
Usual forum rules apply. Don’t be mean, this does not exclude negative comments, but keep it to the game, not the individual. This will not be tolerated in my little kingdom of the forums.
Please still report bugs. It is super helpful, and yes we do scurry over them on days after a Lamannia push like kobolds and shiny objects.
Hope to see you on there! Help us make DDO the best experience for you and your friends!
« Last Edit: Jan 21st, 2014 at 3:58pm by TractorsareEpic »  
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Arkat
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #1 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:06pm
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Where does the Player's Council fit relative to the new Lama? It sounds like the Devs are going to be taking feedback from everyone who logs in. VIPs are mentioned specifically regarding the two dungeons but that doesn't mean no one else will be permitted to log in.
  

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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #2 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:06pm
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Seems good.
  

A half-dozen boss Vaulties donated generously with real money to my classroom during a fundraiser in May 2015 to get poor kids books to read. I won't forget that. They know who they are, and they freaking rule.

Disavowed wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:51pm:
Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration.

Artorias wrote on Feb 10th, 2016 at 2:15pm:
Good grief Meat, you're hopeless. You would label the simple act of taking a shit as someone obeying the divine law of nature to leave a proof of existence.
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #3 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:08pm
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Arkat wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:06pm:
Where does the Player's Council fit relative to the new Lama? It sounds like the Devs are going to be taking feedback from everyone who logs in. VIPs are mentioned specifically regarding the two dungeons but that doesn't mean no one else will be permitted to log in.


I was wondering the same. I wonder if they will just be part of round table discussions prior to new dev or in the earlier than alpha stage?
  

A half-dozen boss Vaulties donated generously with real money to my classroom during a fundraiser in May 2015 to get poor kids books to read. I won't forget that. They know who they are, and they freaking rule.

Disavowed wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:51pm:
Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration.

Artorias wrote on Feb 10th, 2016 at 2:15pm:
Good grief Meat, you're hopeless. You would label the simple act of taking a shit as someone obeying the divine law of nature to leave a proof of existence.
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StainersMom
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #4 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:10pm
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Per Jerry's post, the Player's Council will be expected to play and provide feedback on Lama-Land. Outside of that, they will be presented information about upcoming changes and asked for feedback. That information will be from out-of-game avenues.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #5 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:47pm
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So does this mean we can now openly talk about the people who were in ML ?

And how far too many Devs treated it with contempt?
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #6 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:53pm
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HairyO wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:47pm:
So does this mean we can now openly talk about the people who were in ML ?

And how far too many Devs treated it with contempt?


Yes.
  

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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #7 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:59pm
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As I said in the mother-thread over at Turbine - I am just wondering exactly how bad things have gotten to make Turbine so radically shift gears like this in the past few months. Yeah, there is a new guy at the wheel, but these are some fairly significant changes.


It's likely this is just me reacting to years' worth of reasons to build up an armor of cynicism... but I don't think these changes are necessarily good things - and perhaps the best indicator we've seen yet that DDO is in trouble.
  

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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #8 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:05pm
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Quote:
"There are some things that you will notice:
Loot is not finished. Not even close. Matter of fact, most of it is placeholder stuff.
Deco is not finished. Yes some rooms are bare.
Monsters are not balanced yet. Good luck.
VO (Voice overs) work is about half done.

You may come across weird systems and placeholders--half built skills and whatnot. Most should be turned off and hidden, but you never know."



Sure he's not talking about the live servers?

  

Revaulting wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16pm:
Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #9 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:08pm
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Memnir wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:59pm:
It's likely this is just me reacting to years' worth of reasons to build up an armor of cynicism... but I don't think these changes are necessarily good things - and perhaps the best indicator we've seen yet that DDO is in trouble.



nah.  just someone at DDO finally figuring out they can pay less for shipping the same bugs and half-finished content to live if they cut out mournlands.
  

Revaulting wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16pm:
Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #10 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:09pm
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Dr_tank2vich wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 4:53pm:
Yes.


Cool.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #11 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:56pm
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Does this mean I can share nasty stories I've heard from friends about 404error?
  

That's not opinion, that's science. And science is one cold hearted bitch with a 14 inch strap on.
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #12 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:58pm
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aDifferentHandle wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:56pm:
Does this mean I can share nasty stories I've heard from friends about 404error?


I always liked Ninja. I think Kookie and Squeak tried to do a good job, but Turbine as a whole thought very little of ML for a very long time.

Devs had to be dragged there kicking and screaming, and it was used to review content far too developed for meaningful change to be made - no matter how big the protests of the players.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #13 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 6:12pm
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"As you may have heard, we are shutting down Mournlands."

And nary a fuck was given that day...
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #14 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 6:18pm
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aDifferentHandle wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:56pm:
Does this mean I can share nasty stories I've heard from friends about 404error?


Why'd you wait so long? Dude got shitcanned a while back. You should have shared them then!
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #15 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 6:27pm
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HairyO wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:58pm:
I always liked Ninja. I think Kookie and Squeak tried to do a good job, but Turbine as a whole thought very little of ML for a very long time.



Devs had to be dragged there kicking and screaming, and it was used to review content far too developed for meaningful change to be made - no matter how big the protests of the players.


There is a lot if truth in this. 

  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #16 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 6:35pm
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With ML gone and the ban on DDOVault removed from the MLers, it will be interesting to see who returns.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #17 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:25pm
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HairyO wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 6:35pm:
With ML gone and the ban on DDOVault removed from the MLers, it will be interesting to see who returns.


How exactly did the vault ban work?  Unless the MLander used the same username or something DDO wouldn't know.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #18 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:46pm
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raybob wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:25pm:
How exactly did the vault ban work?  Unless the MLander used the same username or something DDO wouldn't know.

Amazing! You figured it out!  Cheesy
  

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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #19 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:52pm
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raybob wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:25pm:
How exactly did the vault ban work?  Unless the MLander used the same username or something DDO wouldn't know.


ML had a forum and people would post there about DDOVault.

So if a leak ended up on DDOVault the MLers who had known DDOVault accounts would be temporarily banned from the server, the forum, and the IRC channel while Turbine looked for the leaker.

Eventually the ban would be lifted and the MLers would return.

And of course the people who never announced their DDOVault account were free to continue.

That said, I find it highly unlikely that a leaker would have been the sort to openly talk about their DDOVault account.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #20 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 8:35pm
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More likely the new Lamannia will be more akin to the current Mournlands, while the Player's Council will be involved at a more upstream stage than the current Mournlands. So basically, there will no longer be something resembling the current Lamannia i.e. a preview server.

Turbine probably realized that getting player feedback after systems were already coded up (i.e. Mournlands) was likely a bad use of resources, since a lot of programming manhours have already been expended at that point, so it's more expensive to make design changes there. It's smarter to have design changes occur earlier in the development cycle (i.e. new Player's Council) when systems are still basically just a bunch of talk and ideas, rather than trying to make the changes on already-coded systems, where bugs can arise not just from programming error but also from changes in design direction halfway through programming.

The new Lamannia then would serve more as a QA clearinghouse and a final check that new systems are ready for live, i.e. working properly, rather than for design changes.

So new Player's Council -> upstream of current Mournlands, and new Lamannia -> slightly downstream of current Mournlands, but far upstream of current Lamannia. Turbine is basically just shifting the player feedback stages to earlier in the development cycle. They most likely concluded that the current Lamannia wasn't giving enough feedback to be worthwhile, since at that point systems were mostly fully coded up so design changes based on the feedback was expensive, and as for bugs, well, that's what the live servers are for.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #21 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 8:46pm
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Yobai wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 5:05pm:
Sure he's not talking about the live servers?


Hah, as I read Maj's post I thought exactly the same thing!
Don't forget the TBD's and assorted file reference errors too. New content wouldn't be the same without them.  Wink


They're trying to make VIP's feel special, whilst actually getting them to do their jobs for them.

As Memnir says, it is interesting - why start public Alpha testing now?  Why the shift in thinking?  I think it more likely a mgmt decision than imminent demise.  Imminent demise would not have me want to Alpha testing, and Maj's comments are that internally Turbine thought they had a fabulous year in 2013 - so hardly negativity.

I would hope the Player's Council helps them to avoid wasting their development time on breaking things that weren't broken (secret doors) and focuses on fixing key items and developing content/systems that people want.  That would be the best use of it.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #22 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 8:53pm
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DropBear wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 8:46pm:
Hah, as I read Maj's post I thought exactly the same thing!
Don't forget the TBD's and assorted file reference errors too. New content wouldn't be the same without them.  Wink


They're trying to make VIP's feel special, whilst actually getting them to do their jobs for them.

As Memnir says, it is interesting - why start public Alpha testing now?  Why the shift in thinking?  I think it more likely a mgmt decision than imminent demise.  Imminent demise would not have me want to Alpha testing, and Maj's comments are that internally Turbine thought they had a fabulous year in 2013 - so hardly negativity.

I would hope the Player's Council helps them to avoid wasting their development time on breaking things that weren't broken (secret doors) and focuses on fixing key items and developing content/systems that people want.  That would be the best use of it.


You mean like the icon for my bladeforged character's slashing reduction?  The one that says "DO NOT USE" in big yellow letters?
  

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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #23 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 8:57pm
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Vanshilar wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 8:35pm:
Turbine probably realized that getting player feedback after systems were already coded up (i.e. Mournlands) was likely a bad use of resources, since a lot of programming manhours have already been expended at that point, so it's more expensive to make design changes there. It's smarter to have design changes occur earlier in the development cycle (i.e. new Player's Council) when systems are still basically just a bunch of talk and ideas, rather than trying to make the changes on already-coded systems, where bugs can arise not just from programming error but also from changes in design direction halfway through programming.


If this is true then there is hope. But Turbine's past antics do not give me much faith.
  
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Re: A new era for LAMA land.
Reply #24 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 9:12pm
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Osharan Tregarth wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 8:53pm:
You mean like the icon for my bladeforged character's slashing reduction?  The one that says "DO NOT USE" in big yellow letters?


Yup, I know the one.  I love the half-finished code for my Bladeforged - it gives that raw beta build flavor.  Smiley
I like how it was released missing some of its key abilities (Reconstruct) too.
  
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