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PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) (Read 29137 times)

Alex DeLarge Epic Poster Offline Get ready for some of the 'ol in-out, in-out Posts: 3481 Location: Foggy Albion Joined: May 11^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #50 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:08am	Print Post
	rest wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:01am: Do the bows count as two handed weapons for the purpose of getting a red slot at tier 2? No, its just a 2nd tier upgrade where you can pick any preferred upgrade or Green or Purple slot. Personally, I would have preferred an extra slot upgrade for Tier 4, but oh well...


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Daze Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! I do ... I really do. Posts: 647 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #51 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:11am	Print Post
	harharharhar wrote on Mar 19^th, 2014 at 11:59pm: The new bows are better (or at least a VERY compelling alternative/Addition), but separately, my post was about Attack Speed and stacking. erm you started with new bows are better then went on to justify it with haste stacking ... not sure how that works but my logic calls bullshit. I agree they are very compelling at tier 3 but if you have a fully decked out pinion ... I say keep it till you get the ingredients you need to make it that far.

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harharharhar Epic Poster Offline Girthless Trolllicker Posts: 3421 Joined: Aug 31^st, 2012 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #52 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:27am	Print Post
	Daze wrote on Mar 19^th, 2014 at 11:57pm: right ... but then BOTH bows would be at 22% so the haste just cancels out. ((2.5[2d6]+8)x15) = 382.5 ((2.5[2d6]+8)x3x4) = 306 688.5+((4x15)+(4x3x4) for planar prowess trinket) = 796.5 (+ dmg for str modifier with 50 str on extra crit(20x3x2-40)) = 876.5 199.5+876.5 = 1,076 vs Thunder forged ((4.5[1d8]+11)x17) = 531.25 ((4.5[1d8]+11)x3x2) = 187.5 718.75+332.5 = 1,051.25 I dont understand why you don't understand that I'm just clarifying how attack speed works. separately: I believe the new bows to be better because of all the procs, not to mention regening DM/Action Boosts/Etc.


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Daze Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! I do ... I really do. Posts: 647 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #53 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:21am	Print Post
	harharharhar wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:27am: I dont understand why you don't understand that I'm just clarifying how attack speed works. separately: I believe the new bows to be better because of all the procs, not to mention regening DM/Action Boosts/Etc. Understanding failures are on your end hoss. I only did the math without blinding speed .. then did it later with. Add up whatever haste you want .. it doesn't change the fact that if both bows have the same haste they cancel out. Your clarifications are about as transparent as mud considering you are in a thread about bow comparisons where the speed difference is only if the Pinion (20%) is faster then your spell haste (15%) and you're talking about stacking haste as if it matters to the conversation at hand. You can believe whatever you like ... even creationism. I prefer to dwell on facts though. Thanks for the input 8)
	« Last Edit: Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:28am by Daze »
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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #54 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 2:23am	Print Post
	Meat-Head wrote on Mar 19^th, 2014 at 11:22pm: For the love of Pete... PINION HAS ONE RED SLOT. WYRM HAS TWO. WYRM WILL ALWAYS BE ONE DMG AUG AHEAD. You silly goose. Depends on the aug. If you use the ruby eye stuff, the one with effects off crits, Pinion pulls ahead. Although I don't bother much with numbers. My AA looks cooler with Pinion.

	En taro Tassadar!
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Daze Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! I do ... I really do. Posts: 647 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #55 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 2:35am	Print Post
	NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 2:23am: Depends on the aug. If you use the ruby eye stuff, the one with effects off crits, Pinion pulls ahead. Although I don't bother much with numbers. My AA looks cooler with Pinion. Ruby eye augs are a 2% proc rate ... crits have nothing to do with it and they are based on the ML of the weapon which means they work better on thunder forged than Pinion. dunder forged bows only get 2 augs if you take a purple aug for tier 2 which means no paralyzing no 2nd degree burns etc etc.� So yes 2 augs are better than one ... but it only makes them better than Pinion by 1 point.... in the looks department ... I agree it overshadows that 1 point (pun intended).
	« Last Edit: Mar 20^th, 2014 at 2:45am by Daze »
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Meat-Head 53%Moron57%Misunderstood Offline Why am I reading crap on this forum? Posts: 12345 Location: Oregon Joined: Dec 5^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #56 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 9:54am	Print Post
	Alex DeLarge wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:08am: No, its just a 2nd tier upgrade where you can pick any preferred upgrade or Green or Purple slot. Personally, I would have preferred an extra slot upgrade for Tier 4, but oh well... Ok, I was extrapolating from handwraps.. Handwraps have 2.. Well, one red and one orange WITHOUT having to use t2 for it... I'm going to confirm this myself with a bow..

	A half-dozen boss Vaulties donated generously with real money to my classroom during a fundraiser in May 2015 to get poor kids books to read. I won't forget that. They know who they are, and they freaking rule. Disavowed wrote on Apr 19^th, 2016 at 1:51pm: Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration. Artorias wrote on Feb 10^th, 2016 at 2:15pm: Good grief Meat, you're hopeless. You would label the simple act of taking a shit as someone obeying the divine law of nature to leave a proof of existence.
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Meat-Head 53%Moron57%Misunderstood Offline Why am I reading crap on this forum? Posts: 12345 Location: Oregon Joined: Dec 5^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #57 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 10:09am	Print Post
	Alex DeLarge wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:08am: No, its just a 2nd tier upgrade where you can pick any preferred upgrade or Green or Purple slot. Personally, I would have preferred an extra slot upgrade for Tier 4, but oh well... Ok, I confirmed you're correct here.. Weird that handwraps have two.. I think this might be a bug. It should have one red and one orange.

	A half-dozen boss Vaulties donated generously with real money to my classroom during a fundraiser in May 2015 to get poor kids books to read. I won't forget that. They know who they are, and they freaking rule. Disavowed wrote on Apr 19^th, 2016 at 1:51pm: Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration. Artorias wrote on Feb 10^th, 2016 at 2:15pm: Good grief Meat, you're hopeless. You would label the simple act of taking a shit as someone obeying the divine law of nature to leave a proof of existence.
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Hiding Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1298 Joined: Feb 5^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #58 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:05am	Print Post
	Meat-Head wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 10:09am: Ok, I confirmed you're correct here.. Weird that handwraps have two.. I think this might be a bug. It should have one red and one orange. Nah, they're just furthering their romance with monks. As it stands, they have one orange and one colorless, yeah? That makes your calculations roughly the same - however, if you add in full deadly, seeker, exceptional seeker and high strength, my guess is that pinion will pull ahead.


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Vendui Releaser Of Exploits Offline Dare to tempt your fates? Everything has a price. Posts: 2492 Location: Central WI Joined: Oct 31^st, 2013 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #59 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:11am	Print Post
	Daze wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 2:35am: Ruby eye augs are a 2% proc rate ... crits have nothing to do with it and they are based on the ML of the weapon which means they work better on thunder forged than Pinion. dunder forged bows only get 2 augs if you take a purple aug for tier 2 which means no paralyzing no 2nd degree burns etc etc.� So yes 2 augs are better than one ... but it only makes them better than Pinion by 1 point.... in the looks department ... I agree it overshadows that 1 point (pun intended). as far as your "2% proc rate" goes... I have a rightous slotted atm... it procs about every 4th hit.. which.... with math being hard, i can only assume is 2% cuz the text tells me so? although.. it also says that the erosion and force do 4d4, when really they do 3d4.. ~shrug~


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Rasczak Stormreaver Piker Offline Instant Human...Just Add Coffee Posts: 668 Location: South, Way South Joined: Oct 4^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #60 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:31am	Print Post
	Vendui wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:11am: as far as your "2% proc rate" goes... I have a rightous slotted atm... it procs about every 4th hit.. which.... with math being hard, i can only assume is 2% cuz the text tells me so? although.. it also says that the erosion and force do 4d4, when really they do 3d4.. ~shrug~ It said it on a mouse-over so it must be true.


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NOTpopejubal Epic Poster Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 4096 Location: Let go or get dragged. Joined: Apr 17^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #61 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:45am	Print Post
	Vendui wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:11am: as far as your "2% proc rate" goes... I have a rightous slotted atm... it procs about every 4th hit.. which.... with math being hard, i can only assume is 2% cuz the text tells me so? although.. it also says that the erosion and force do 4d4, when really they do 3d4.. ~shrug~ Now that's very interesting. I had hoped the Ruby Eye of Righteousness would flag the weapon as Good aligned for bypasing damage reduction and I pretty much blew off the augment entirely once I read from Tolero that it wouldn't do that, but if it's bugged to proc on crit instead of 2%, that's a very different story.


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #62 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:53am	Print Post
	Quick question. i would test i but that requires work. And really, I mean who wants to work? Fortification reduction is it stacking from any sources? Deconstructor augment isn't giving me exact fort bypass numbers but does proc on every hit. Is it working with the 35% bypass on Thunder Forged weapons? And Precision feat? I slotted Decon aug into a 35% thunder forged weapon and the dps shot up dramatically. Also that I can hit like 80 on my base damage with the Thunder Forged 2hander, which is low I'm sure you could get another 10 on that.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Meat-Head 53%Moron57%Misunderstood Offline Why am I reading crap on this forum? Posts: 12345 Location: Oregon Joined: Dec 5^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #63 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:09pm	Print Post
	Hiding wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:05am: As it stands, they have one orange and one colorless, yeah? That makes your calculations roughly the same - however, if you add in full deadly, seeker, exceptional seeker and high strength, my guess is that pinion will pull ahead. Orange and colorless. Yes. As for the same.. I disagree. The Mortal Fear proc for t3 is pretty amazing.. and hard to calculate, so I left it out. The vulnerability proc from t1 is also big on bosses and I didn't include it. So, I think Wyrm is still ahead over all at t3-- especially considering fortification. Also, my dmg mod of 60 I used included deadly and strength. But as dmg mod gets closer to 75ish etc.. You probably are better off with Pinion on bosses. I'm wondering if the Vulnerability proc stacks or not with the electric t5 AA tree thing. If not, that's a major factor.

	A half-dozen boss Vaulties donated generously with real money to my classroom during a fundraiser in May 2015 to get poor kids books to read. I won't forget that. They know who they are, and they freaking rule. Disavowed wrote on Apr 19^th, 2016 at 1:51pm: Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration. Artorias wrote on Feb 10^th, 2016 at 2:15pm: Good grief Meat, you're hopeless. You would label the simple act of taking a shit as someone obeying the divine law of nature to leave a proof of existence.
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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #64 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:11pm	Print Post
	I believe the vulnerability is the same as the other places you get it from: AA or electric sorc. I cannot confirm because my ranged character is low in the rotation list. Currently working on druid, wizard and fighter/barb.


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Laraeph Waterworks Kobold Offline Posts: 131 Joined: May 4^th, 2012	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #65 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:22pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 12:11pm: I believe the vulnerability is the same as the other places you get it from: AA or electric sorc. I cannot confirm because my ranged character is low in the rotation list. Currently working on druid, wizard and fighter/barb. I can confirm it is. It's also quite a bit faster to stack up, and easily kept maxed.


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harharharhar Epic Poster Offline Girthless Trolllicker Posts: 3421 Joined: Aug 31^st, 2012 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #66 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:26pm	Print Post
	Daze wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:21am: Understanding failures omg shut up. Re Pinion vs T3: Raw damage on low fort mobs, especially with fire immunity is going to be highest with Pinion. With Undead, it's harder since some of T3 Wyrm bows could do Negative damage. The point is: you now have a bow that situationally is competitive or even vastly superior to Pinion. For instance: T3 Wyrm will out-damage Pinion on dragons every-time (duh). But with level drains and Mortal Fear, it will vastly outdamage Pinion on trash mobs/Orange names most of the time as well. Pinion maybe just be the best critting bow now, instead of flat out the best bow. The most important part of this is that all ranged characters who can't self cast haste are idiots not to have Blinding Speed. Unless you dont have mats and dont plan on making Wyrm bows.


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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #67 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:30pm	Print Post
	I might go back to using my epic thornlord, to be a loot hipster.


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harharharhar Epic Poster Offline Girthless Trolllicker Posts: 3421 Joined: Aug 31^st, 2012 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #68 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:36pm	Print Post
	Only use Thornlord if your toon has a beard.


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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #69 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:48pm	Print Post
	He's a WF. I have a beard in real life, does that count?


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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #70 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:49pm	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 11:53am: Fortification reduction is it stacking from any sources? Fort bypass stacked on forums, never in game. Grim's, Black and Precision works together though.


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Shadehater Dropbear Awareness Society Offline Smite Stupid! Posts: 2174 Joined: May 6^th, 2012	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #71 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 2:54pm	Print Post
	Meat-Head wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 10:09am: Ok, I confirmed you're correct here.. Weird that handwraps have two.. I think this might be a bug. It should have one red and one orange. I do know what I am talking about sometimes.


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Daze Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! I do ... I really do. Posts: 647 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #72 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 4:02pm	Print Post
	harharharhar wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:26pm: omg shut up. Slurp my ass Re Pinion vs T3: Raw damage on low fort mobs, especially with fire immunity is going to be highest with Pinion. With Undead, it's harder since some of T3 Wyrm bows could do Negative damage. The point is: you now have a bow that situationally is competitive or even vastly superior to Pinion. For instance: T3 Wyrm will out-damage Pinion on dragons every-time (duh). Already said that, hell a t1 will out dps pinion on dragons if it has the right proc But with level drains and Mortal Fear, it will vastly outdamage Pinion on trash mobs/Orange names most of the time as well. Yup, see above Pinion maybe just be the best critting bow now, instead of flat out the best bow. The most important part of this is that all ranged characters who can't self cast haste are idiots not to have Blinding Speed. Unless you dont have mats and dont plan on making Wyrm bows. Your mom's an idiot for birthing you. You're just an idiot for trying to pigeon hole my monkchers lvl 27 feat. I do what I want. Still trying to figure out what the fuck stacking haste has to do with the conversation.
	« Last Edit: Mar 20^th, 2014 at 5:14pm by Daze »
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NOTpopejubal Epic Poster Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 4096 Location: Let go or get dragged. Joined: Apr 17^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #73 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 4:05pm	Print Post
	Daze wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 4:02pm: I do what I want.


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Daze Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! I do ... I really do. Posts: 647 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: PSA For bow users (aka Monkchers) Reply #74 - Mar 20^th, 2014 at 4:07pm	Print Post
	harharharhar wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 1:36pm: Only use Thornlord if your toon has a beard. Now you're just making sense ... it's offensive. Stop it.

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