E3BC is set is stone, loot is going to suck, XP is going to suck but it's not going to change anytime soon.

So, what are you guys discussing in the Player Council? I don't care if you are scared about NDA, make a puppy account and reply if you want to. I'm only asking because lately the game has become boring to me as well and 3BC is not going to keep my interest for long (I'll give it 1 week).

Just one thing: if you want to reply, please, for the love of god, don't start with the "You'll see, it's going to be awesome" / "It's going to suck" / "One time there was a dragon..." crap (I'm looking at you, Flav). Be clear. Or just don't reply at all, it's fine as well. I don't really expect a serious answer but never say never, right?

This is also directed to Maj, if he wants to chime in and say something. But he probably won't.

I'm not going to say what has been discussed, but when it comes to how much the PC is listened to, my experience has been that if enough PC members say "no", the change won't be implemented, at least not as is. A good example is the ship buffs having charges that Flav mentioned. I don't know how many of us said no, but we got heard and the idea was scrapped.

Not defending the PC nor the garbage loot they're pawning off on us.

Wasn't E3BC decided upon long before the PC was announced?

My guess is they were so far into development of this laughable content that the PC didn't get much of a say in it.

I would've liked to see the loot on the same level as what you get in GH since both are in the ML24 range, but the GH stuff still seems superior.

E3BC just could've been so much...more.  But who am I kidding...this is Turbine we're talking about. (and since most of us long time players already have 3BC, no need to invest developer time/effort on a pack that won't generate much revenue)

Angry wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 7:11am:


Sad.

Angry wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 7:30am:


Not finalized yet, but we all know Turbine anyway.

And we know from IronClan that they also ignored you PC members on the Swashbuckler tree.

Vic wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 7:14am:


Yes we were, some changes were made, but honestly many in the PC said that they were going to get flak over 3BC being LVL 24/25 and not end game, as well as the loot being meh.
Typical example :we said that +120 Spellpower for all the items with it was mandatory if Turbine wanted people slightly interested in the loot... We were overruled, and people said the same thing is the Loot Thread. Well actually many of the changes we suggested have also been suggested in the loot thread you saw. ( when the loot wasn't modified before you saw it )

wascally wabbit wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 7:27am:


3BC was decided long before we were put in the loop, and I suspect that some of it was already set, like the Level Range, the lack of raid and most of the loot.
A few hints suggest that some other things weren't that set in stone ( the runearm, when shown to us wasn't named and we were asked to give names if we had ideas [ I gave St Elmo's Fire ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo%27s_fire) it has been renamed to the relevant Saint for Eberron... I plead guilty for the name. ]  )

As already said we were given polls to choose between Yuan-Ti and Sahuagins...
Then Harpies and Gryphons came into play and we all were unhappy... But they wanted to show off their new mobs... so we are stuck with them.

We also piled on the Journal idea, that's why it's back to the old explorer way of things.
If they listened to it completely they will only put journal in underground/inside building explorer areas from now on. 

On the same track the Swashbuckler tree, took a lot of flak due to the SWF issue ( as we weren't shown the feats ).

Honestly, we try... but somedays we all feel like Don Quixote charging a windmill.

Pallai wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 9:13am:


In some ways yes, in others no. 

Mournlands was more "Here is U13, Does quest A make you feel like you are in a giant baloon?  Do the monsters feel like a correct fit for the quest?  Will you run this quest again?  Will you run this quest on all your characters?" or here are 10K materials, test and play with new crafting system X.

Oh, it doesn't matter, we are going live next week.

The PC is given info on upcoming changes or possible changes as a whole, ahead of time.  It isn't about running 'Quest A', more like 'Here is what we are planning for X, what do you think?'

From personal experience I feel the PC has had more of a direct impact on changes, tweaks and dev interaction then ML did, at least as far as being listened to goes.

Pallai wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 9:13am:


Yes

Pallai wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 9:13am:


Fallacy of Escalation of Commitment.

Rubbinns wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 10:47am:


I never said that it was the single idea they removed from their original draft... I said that it was one of the ideas that went the way of the dodo after PC feedback. There's a slight difference.

As Durk said, we are seeing things way ahead in time. We started talking about 3BC 4 month ago. What you have been fed on Lamannia is in some instance the second or the third revision of the idea... After our feedback... ( for the weight it has/had in some case )
There's cases where we are just not listened, because they consider that what we say is wrong... If they did listen 3BC would have been 28ish with End Game Loot. 

Rubbinns wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:


You really think Turbine has the foresight to create a terrible version of something, to show to 30 players, so that when they give them what is really intended they like it more?

Maybe on Lamannia inciting/impressing the mass crowds, but even as a PC member I don't think we are worth their time doing that.

Rubbinns wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 12:45pm:


My point is that from Mournlands to the PC they have never cared if we cried in one direction together or not, and even if we did it doesn't necessarily have any effect. 

Sounds like a lot of work and collusion on their end to just get us to hate an idea together so that we like the revision.

I think you give them way to much credit, and think the PC's opinions somehow have a sway on things.

There have been 'plenty' of things over the years that everyone cried about together and they still made it to live.

Do you remember the Madstone changes?

the next big thing is even funnier than the last

you'll forget this post by the time it matters

TractorsareEpic wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:


oh, go...

So I guess even Flav doesn't want to talk about the things PC is discussion. Can we know your reasons of why you don't want to share it?