GooFY wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 7:15pm:


Cynical bastard....

I'm excited for the changes. It doesn't matter if they suck because heavy armor users and pally > /2 are already fucking terrible. So they literally can only go up. If they nerf /2 pally in the process, GOOD. Everyone should not have 60+ saves but also require 2 paladin levels. It's boring. I don't do it now pretty much out of protest with my builds.

In the process if they actually improve some things, well then fuckin' eh. Works for me. There really isn't much at stake here besides the Divine Grace changes and frankly, if you care about saves, splashing 2 Pally for up to +8 to saves from CHA mod, that's still a pretty good splash for many. But not good enough to make it the only obvious splash or even vs. pure class. When you think about it, it's really the OP /2 splash classes that ruin pure class builds. No one skips being pure at end game for 2 levels of just any class. It's the the same ones over and over: Monk, Rogue, Pally. Rogue pretty much only when people can't go Monk ie Bard or Barbarian. Improving Bards, and spreading out Monk's insane progression from level 1-2 would go a long way to changing these things. SO too will reducing the effect of splashing 2 Pally.

So far, I am in favor of the changes being proposed. It is another shitty system, but actually, is it? I don't think it is. It's basically a duplication of PRR, with 2 changes: P goes to M, and damage type on the backend that is typed as "Magic" will get blocked based on the MRR value. PRR, despite whether you like it's design or not, works EXACTLY as intended with no real bugs that I am aware of.

If they are simply duplicating this existing system, and change a couple damage type flags, I don't see how this is a big deal. And the tech to increase a buff based on enchantment level is also extant in the loot system, and without bugs (Spell Power on caster items).

So I really don't see any reason to get all up in arms about it. Quite the contrary: they've actually listened to you, and instead of designing and implementing a whole new system, they're improving the scaling of PRR, improving a good, working system, and making it apply to a new form of defensive capabilities to expand functionality of the extant system.

But I guess some of you are too busy railing about Turbine to actually think about what they're doing, with MRR at least, to keep new development shallow but broad instead of narrow and deep, which is what truly new systems tend to be.

Don't go stealing my non pally builds dude.

oh, you mean brilliant and worthy of imitation? thanks dude, that's nice of you to say.

Munkenmo wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:56pm:


*Edit I'm assuming you mean for Monkcher builds.

No, I think I am saying that /2 of any class should have roughly equal benefits. And for a lot of builds and playstyles (read: lazier players) /2 Pally is far and away the better choice at uncapped CHA mod to saves. Right now you have to be literally retarded to go Pure Sorc vs. 18 Sorc/2 Paladin, unless you are the very bestiest of players. And if you're that, then you're probably something like Teth's 12FvS/6Wiz/2Barb Shiradibot.

Anyway, if you are at the level of play where you're rarely having to make any important saves because you know how to move and cover your immunities, then yeah I'm with you, FvS is better today. I like that if they change paladin, more people will be compelled to learn how to play the better way, since they can't be so lazy and all have a billion saves.

dude he misread it. let it go.

DropBear wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 8:28pm:


It seems like they listened more to the moaning about paladin splashes and evasion than to the calls to buff paladins.

3d6 light damage and 70 temp hp when you use something that is kind of limited whooopeeedoooo in epic levels.

They just want to try and make everyone like jerry when he plays.

TractorsareEpic wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 2:41pm:


No one else noticed they just dropped a hint about a new class coming soon?

Probably  Marshal.

iconic is a race, not class. not that another iconic would be bad. more double PL farming!

Why do they introduce a new value instead of saying PRR works for magic/spell damage now too?

As far as I can see in the examples PRR and MRR cap at the same value and each armor gives the same amount for both.

I would have prefered a change to PRR because it should be much easier than a new system.

Or do they just want to us to squeeze in another stat/enchantment on our items?

I read the +1 enhancement rule as feature to please the PnP veterans. Don't see a sense of this restriction for balancing MRR.


And with the devine grace change... When I read the boobies I thought 'oh, are they moving devine grace from 2 to 6 pal levels?'.
But atm I only see sorc/pal splashes really getting hit by that. Clerics and FvS only get hit by around -5 saves I guess and most other classes who splashed two pally won't notice the change at all.
So I don't see how this is affecting the 2 pally splash in general unless they mainly focused on nerfing the sorc/pal splash(AND bladeforged AND PDK cha melee builds). -> nerf to iconics? :S

And what are they doing with pure casters? They don't have evasion and usually don't wear heavy armor... And with MRR introduced I am sure new content is going to be balanced around having MRR...
Shouldn't the understanding of magic give casters the possibility to mitigate magic damage without the need of any armor? (You are used to conjure fire and stuff without harming yourself)

Ohfaq wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 1:27am:


I will only accept an Iconic if it starts off in the warlock class.

KilgoreTrout wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 3:20pm:


Given Turdbine's history this will probably be the end result after all is said and done. Making things more complex and complicated does nothing but make it easier for them to fuck things up. Not to mention taking more processor cycles to accomplish, possibly adding to lag. We already have AC and MR, why not focus on making those more relevant instead of adding more and more crap.