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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt (Read 11092 times)
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #25 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 4:35pm
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itsmineisawitfirst wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 4:30pm:
If they banned dupers, then no one would be left playing!


chai would!
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #26 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 4:46pm
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Yobai wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 4:03pm:
Vendui wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 12:53am:
bleh... i have a feeling the hunters will come a knocking on my door.. They will see stuff from the last time round, that they never got rid of.. and find me guilty again :c


if not you can just pretend they did and post the made up details here. 



Grin
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #27 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 5:29pm
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I find the term witch hunt rather funny by the way. Almost like dupers are innocent victims or something.

I mean seriously, you do something wrong, expect to possibly get reported.

It's like spotting someone stealing candy from a convenience store. Sure it's not the worse crime ever, but if you were the store owner I'm sure you'd prefer being warned and catch the guy if possible.

The whole thing is even more laughable when I see dupers acting like people reporting them are douchebags. It's almost like the previous MMO I played with clans full of bots threatening normal players to KoS them if they reported their bots, that shit was hilarious.

I duped the first time the thing was made public to everyone here, I got banned and you know what? I wouldn't even hold a grudge against anyone that might have reported me. I knew the moment I duped the first thing that I could get banned for it. If you expect otherwise, you have your head far up your ass.

I personally don't care at all about anyone duping and would not report anyone for it. But, and I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, I also cannot deny that it would actually be the right thing to do.

(Not targeting OP in particular by the way, just the whole situation)
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #28 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:03pm
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Distributed wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 5:29pm:
I also cannot deny that it would actually be the right thing to do.

Righht
Distributed wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 5:29pm:
someone stealing candy from a convenience store.

stfu
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #29 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:26pm
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It is a witch hunt because it is reporting your suspicions without actual fact, in an overarching and blanket way.

Perhaps McCarthyism is a more accurate comparison
  
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SwashbucklerHater
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #30 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:42pm
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Distributed wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 5:29pm:
I find the term witch hunt rather funny by the way. Almost like dupers are innocent victims or something.



Seems you didn't understand the meaning of witch hunt.

It's probably strange to use that term in the vault because every vaulty is an exploiter and duper ( Wink ) but the quoted sentence encourages players to report every kind of suspicious behaviour. So there will be many innocent players get reported as well (i.e. going afk infront of the bank), that's why it's called witch hunt.


edit: I somehow didn't notice shadehaters answer, but doesn't matter. I still got an additional post. Cheesy
« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:44pm by SwashbucklerHater »  
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Yobai
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #31 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 7:04pm
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Distributed wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 5:29pm:
I find the term witch hunt rather funny by the way. Almost like dupers are innocent victims or something.




I find your ignorance rather funny.  apparently so do a lot of the other vaulties.
  

Revaulting wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16pm:
Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #32 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 7:25pm
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then it`s time to TR my wizard into a different class
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #33 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 8:06pm
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Shadehater wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:26pm:
Perhaps McCarthyism is a more accurate comparison


Witchhunt was the right phrase. There's enough stupid people in the world today that thinks McCarthyism means something completely different.

  

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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #34 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 8:13pm
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I know of no moron so fuck stupid to confuse that cunt with the 1950s one.

I never want to meet such a person either
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #35 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 8:49pm
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SwashbucklerHater wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:42pm:
It's probably strange to use that term in the vault because every vaulty is an exploiter and duper ( Wink )

You might be surprised.
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #36 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 8:55pm
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No even Hendick himself is a duper
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #37 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 9:04pm
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Distributed wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 5:29pm:
I find the term witch hunt rather funny by the way. Almost like dupers are innocent victims or something.

No. Almost like random players are paid QA or something. Or that catching and banning a duper is going to fix their software. The exact same way catching and burning witches cured mad cow disease and made crops flourish.
  

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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #38 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 9:36pm
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Revaulting wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 9:04pm:
No. Almost like random players are paid QA or something. Or that catching and banning a duper is going to fix their software. The exact same way catching and burning witches cured mad cow disease and made crops flourish.


It really is a cause and effect argument.
The fact that Turdbine are still looking for Extreme Prejudice shows their focus is on the wrong solution.

Problem: players are exploiting the game.
Soln 1(Turdbine): hunt down and punish those players with Extreme Prejudice, but be inconsistent and childish about it.  Let off those we like with a "tsk tsk" and delete the fuck out of those accounts that we don't like.  What the fuck can they do after all?  Quit?  Haha good riddance.  Who needs them! (them being customers)
Soln 2 (most developers other than Turdbine): fix the fucking problem.  If the exploits don't exist, players can't do it, so then you don't need to ban them and lose customers in the process.  Win-win.

Hell, after MajMal went thru and got rid of most of our exploits last month, I found myself having to play the (bug ridden) game again.... Go figure!
Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #39 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 9:51pm
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DropBear wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 9:36pm:
Hell, after MajMal went thru and got rid of most of our exploits last month, I found myself having to play the (bug ridden) game again.... Go figure!

All hail Maj who, with his magical katana "Sploitbane," hath driven the exploits out of DDOland. Exclamation point, yea verily.
  

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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #40 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 9:57pm
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Turbine should do both, because if people fear to get banned they are more likely to resist the urge of using an exploit.

But fixing the exploit(s) needs to have a higher priority than banning the exploiters. Because it doesn't help to ban them if they can just make a new account and continue using the same exploit.
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #41 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 10:26pm
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SwashbucklerHater wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 9:57pm:
Turbine should do both, because if people fear to get banned they are more likely to resist the urge of using an exploit.

But fixing the exploit(s) needs to have a higher priority than banning the exploiters. Because it doesn't help to ban them if they can just make a new account and continue using the same exploit.


The threat of consequence (banning) only works as a deterrent on about 70-80% of your population.
Consequence and active visible enforcement will deter another 10-15%.
But there will always be an element that either don't care or do not believe they will be caught.  Increasing the severity of the consequence does nothing to deter this group.

Same as in RL.

So you're right, it does require a two pronged approach.  The problem is focusing on consequence alone is not the solution.  The consequence only occurs because of poor quality.
If your devs cannot fix the problem because it is "too hard", hire some who can.

Removing the exploit is 100% effective with no collateral damage (in theory - we know Turdbine fixes always fuck up something else).  It also means that GM's can focus on helping players rather than trolling through accounts deleting random stuff.  You don't lose many players by fixing exploits, you do thru bans.


Instead of having only 1 tool in your toolbox like a sledge hammer i(e. extreme prejudice), they could take a more moderate approach using escalation.
Warnings - we know you have been duping, your account (and IP) will be watched.  Many people would stop at this point.
Infringements - 7-30 days timeouts.
Exploitation - really severe stuff that affects the game community more broadly (perma ban).

90 day timeouts are stupid.  How is it different to a 30 day, other than sound intimidating.
I reckon it takes about 2 weeks before the psychological hooks the game has diminishes.  This means any punishment over 2 weeks puts that person as a real risk of permanently leaving.  I would say in a diminishing population, you want to do whatever you can to retain players (even the naughty ones) and find other solutions (like fixing exploits).

« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2014 at 10:37pm by DropBear »  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #42 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 10:31pm
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SwashbucklerHater wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 9:57pm:
Turbine should do both, because if people fear to get banned they are more likely to resist the urge of using an exploit.

But fixing the exploit(s) needs to have a higher priority than banning the exploiters. Because it doesn't help to ban them if they can just make a new account and continue using the same exploit.

Putting any energy into banning exploiters is fucking stupid, for exactly the reason you gave. Plus "Soln 2" DropBear gave.

To simplify, Turbine has a button that, when pressed, loses them customers and income. It is in their interest to get rid of the button. Any resources that get diverted from getting rid of the button to "Don't Push The Button" are wasted resources (especially since Turbine, even when banning, refuses to tell their customers where the button is or what action of theirs pushed it).
  

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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #43 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 11:48pm
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Shadehater wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 6:26pm:
It is a witch hunt because it is reporting your suspicions without actual fact, in an overarching and blanket way.


Exactly.  Too many players think that everyone who plays better than them, or has better loot must be cheating to get it. 

Anyone less experienced than then you? n00b. 
More experienced?  Must be cheaters.  Or pay2win

(A variation of the George Carlin bit, where everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster is a maniac.)
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #44 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 12:28am
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Well I can certainly see this taking a turn for the worse. Let's turn all the caster arcane type into witches for those 5K shadow dragon scales they are hoarding and burn them all.

Or better yet lets just report damn near everyone on a server and let them work themselves to death over this one.

Has to be the dumbest policing idea yet - why not just pull the plug on the damn game now and shut it all down - save more time that way - fuckin turbine, i swear.
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #45 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 8:27am
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Speaking of witch hunt, The Witcher 3 is going to be sweet!
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #46 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 8:50am
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Fix the exploit, then ban people.
  
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #47 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 11:23am
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DropBear wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 10:26pm:
T
Removing the exploit is 100% effective with no collateral damage (in theory - we know Turdbine fixes always fuck up something else).  It also means that GM's can focus on helping players rather than trolling through accounts deleting random stuff.  You don't lose many players by fixing exploits, you do thru bans.



logic and Turban are incompatible.
  

Revaulting wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16pm:
Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #48 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 11:24am
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Realism51 wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 12:28am:
Well I can certainly see this taking a turn for the worse. Let's turn all the caster arcane type into witches for those 5K shadow dragon scales they are hoarding and burn them all.



fuck the scales.  lets report everyone running around with Thunderforged shit.  they obviously duped or bought duped goods since no one is actually running the raids.
« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2014 at 11:24am by Yobai »  

Revaulting wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16pm:
Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
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Re: Vyvyane Encourages Player Witch Hunt
Reply #49 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 11:36am
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Yobai wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 11:24am:
everyone running around with Thunderforged shit. no one is actually running the raids.

Judging by the amount of people I am seeing with thunder armor and weapons on shitty first life toons that ran the raid once or twice. I had hoped at least it would ungimp them some, but No.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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