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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #25 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 9:16am
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Flagging for Abbott is easy.  I flagged for it solo (with hire) on a 28 pt Rogue about 5 years ago.  They should not change a single thing.  I hope that they do not Crucible Necro 4.
  

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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #26 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 9:32am
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Of course it's easy, it's also annoying and time consuming.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #27 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 9:44am
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It's also easy to get a bauble. You just run weapons shipment over and over until it drops for you.  What a fun way to flag for a raid...

They should be static drops like the stones in the Vale. Obviously this would need a bit of tweaking since they added 8 sigil pieces in only 4 quests.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #28 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 9:48am
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It would be good if the sigil and a run through Litany flagged for Heroic.  Drop the need to run all 4 sides of Litany after the dragon.  Or give you the easy ability to run them all in one instance.

But, really, it's abbott.  Besides the quiver and the litany itself is there anything in there that anyone cares about?  And do those even really matter that much anymore?  Nobody that I know of runs Abbott anymore.  It's the same as Titan.  The flagging mechanism is lame, but who gives a shit?  It's a stupid raid with crappy loot anyways.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #29 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 9:58am
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FakeStrake wrote on Aug 21st, 2014 at 4:27pm:
Posts at the mother forums about changing the current heroic Abbot raid flagging and making sure epic Vol raid has a straightforward (easy?) flagging

Thoughts?

I can understand the frustration at random Sigil drops, but it's currently not that difficult to farm the pieces while doing the normal leveling or going back at a higher level. Yes, will require some repetition (work?) but it is flagging for a raid. Should raid flagging be easy on a silver platter?

Besides the Sigil farm, also posts about the 4 times boss beating. Yes it can get redundant doing front half of litany 4 times, so maybe a door or way to continue on to the next bosses after shattering the crystals in the tower?
Complaints about lack of group, but these can be ran at casual.

About people stating they've been playing for 5+ years and never setting foot into the raid. I don't have the best player skills or have a lot of time to put into DDO. However, I specifically set playing sessions to accomplish goals. It may take some time, but should be doable.

Should every aspect of the game be easily open to all, or should some features require an extra bit of time or skill?




Ha!  I'm one of those who have never done this raid (founder status).   I've flagged several times... I've gone in solo to check it out several times... but every time I beat down the abbot I'd end up in the fucking goggle room.

Too much of a pain in the ass to get my guildies flagged.  (some of them are hopeless).

and I hate doing Litany 4 times... waiting for that damned gate to open is a pain in the ass... but I did enjoy that XP back in the day when doing completionist almost required it.


But back to the point.   I've found many people, and these would be people who play the game and never know about the Vault, or exploiting, or even the ddo wiki, are just never going to do/learn Inferno... these same people also think GoP is just impossible with the end fight, and probably also cannot figure out the end fight in Fleshmakers.   

And then they learn they may have to do those quests multiple times to get the sigil... they just give up on it.

And finally after you manage to get all 8 sigils, then you have to run Litany 4 times?!?!?!?! 

And then after all that, they find out the entire raid is a puzzle and most puzzles require hand-eye coordination?!?!

It just doesn't appeal to them.

So, I just have never been able to get a guild run through this, although I'd love to.

  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #30 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 10:31am
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Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 9:16am:
Flagging for Abbott is easy.  I flagged for it solo (with hire) on a 28 pt Rogue about 5 years ago.  They should not change a single thing.  I hope that they do not Crucible Necro 4. 

Nobody said it is hard.
Its annoying when one sigil piece drops only in one dungeon, and it isnt 100% that you will get it.
« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2014 at 10:31am by Viktor Vaughn »  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #31 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 10:46am
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Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 9:16am:
I hope that they do not Crucible Necro 4. 


Well the list is in the open, so you can go and look which one(s) have been Crucibled.

  

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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #32 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 11:53am
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NOTpopejubal wrote on Aug 21st, 2014 at 4:41pm:
I don't think that every aspect of the game should be beatable by all, but I do think that every aspect of the game should be *available* to all (as long as they pay for it).

Shroud flagging - good
Abbot flagging - sad panda

Yeah, this. Fighting a bad streak on a RNG is neither fun nor skilled work.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #33 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 11:57am
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What the fuck.
Orchard plus Litany is uber xp. I would do each quest 3 - 4 times and farm Litany every life with tr partner or two.
Always have 2 or 3 spare pieces for next life.

Litany is worth it.
People are so dumb. It's total non issue, boggles ze mind.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #34 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 11:57am
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Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 9:16am:
Flagging for Abbott is easy.  I flagged for it solo (with hire) on a 28 pt Rogue about 5 years ago.  They should not change a single thing.  I hope that they do not Crucible Necro 4. 

It's exactly this kind of thoughtless comment that justifies them sitting on their hands and not changing fucked up, badly designed mechanics.

It's not always "easy" for all, it can be a boring pain. If you got two sigil bits at the end of each flagging quest and they were difficult to complete, I'd agree with you, but you don't. You hit the chest and hope. Boring and unnecessary. Raid flagging can reward skill, sure... I'm up for that. Any time a random drop mechanic is a gateway to content it's just a cheap, shitty way to prolong time in the pre-quests. I'd rather be challenged and do one long flag that's gruelling but rewarding than be a slave to chance.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #35 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 1:01pm
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kum-gulp wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 11:57am:
It's exactly this kind of thoughtless comment that justifies them sitting on their hands and not changing fucked up, badly designed mechanics.

It's not always "easy" for all, it can be a boring pain. If you got two sigil bits at the end of each flagging quest and they were difficult to complete, I'd agree with you, but you don't. You hit the chest and hope. Boring and unnecessary. Raid flagging can reward skill, sure... I'm up for that. Any time a random drop mechanic is a gateway to content it's just a cheap, shitty way to prolong time in the pre-quests. I'd rather be challenged and do one long flag that's gruelling but rewarding than be a slave to chance.


Agreed 100%.

Every heroic life I run Nec-4 and flag for Litany, even though I've got enough sigil pieces for the next 12 lives.


If the sigil pieces were a static drop like the signet pieces in vale, it wouldn't be so bad, especially if there were some way to convert or trade them.

Randomly qualifying for flagging is unnecessarily shitty.  It's still shitty even if it's "easy" for some people.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #36 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 2:18pm
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I have flagged for Abbott many times...however only run it 2x back in early 2010.  Took 3 attempts first time and 5 attempts second time due to lag and inferno.  Frustrating enough for me to say Fuck This Dumb Shit and not look back.

Granted the game has changed a lot since then but my hatred of that raid has not.  Lack of Abbott raid gear has not affected the playability of DDO for me in the least.

The new gear looks pretty sweet though...
  

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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #37 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 2:23pm
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I guess I'm the only one who loves Abbot and thinks the flagging system it has is not a bad idea.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #38 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 2:46pm
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Yes.

Although, there are those of us that like Abbot, but hate the flagging mechanic.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #39 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 2:55pm
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Sasha wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 2:23pm:
I guess I'm the only one who loves Abbot and thinks the flagging system it has is not a bad idea.

I love abbot, the flagging and your hot butt Sasha.
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #40 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 2:57pm
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Sadly after the up14 when most of my guildies stopped to play i had to give up.

It's too much painfull to do abbot with tard pugs.
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

People who don't know how to fix their own mistakes cleanly
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #41 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 3:04pm
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Quote:
It's exactly this kind of thoughtless comment that justifies them sitting on their hands and not changing fucked up, badly designed mechanics.

It's not always "easy" for all, it can be a boring pain. If you got two sigil bits at the end of each flagging quest and they were difficult to complete, I'd agree with you, but you don't. You hit the chest and hope. Boring and unnecessary. Raid flagging can reward skill, sure... I'm up for that. Any time a random drop mechanic is a gateway to content it's just a cheap, shitty way to prolong time in the pre-quests. I'd rather be challenged and do one long flag that's gruelling but rewarding than be a slave to chance.


Agreed.  I have flagged for Abbot exactly once because of precisely this shit.  Feel free to piss off with the "it's easy, they shouldn't change it" bollocks.  Sure it's easy; it's an easy, boring pain in the ass.  I just flew through a solo EH Vol to check it out (SO much easier than the FR content at equivalent levels I can hardly believe it) and then once more on EE, and the whole Orchard thing came flooding back to me.  I used to love those quests until I decided to actually flag for the raid, and then I completely burned out on them.

I am fine with them making it *harder*; for all of me, they could prevent people from entering a raid at a higher difficulty level than they have run the flagging quests at.  But it shouldn't be a total fluke as to how many times you have to run the damn flaggers just to get in.  How does that help immersion?  It's total fucking nonsense.  "Roll the d20 again.  Harder, this time.  Now again.  Again.  One more... no, again.  Again.  Bored yet?  Roll again.  AGAIN, dammit!"

Anyone who ran a tabletop game like that would soon need emergency rectal surgery to remove his DM screen.
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #42 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 3:16pm
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C'mon, it's not that hard anymore. The freaking sigils even drop in rare chests.
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

People who don't know how to fix their own mistakes cleanly
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #43 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 3:24pm
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WoW originally had flagging mechanisms but Blizzard removed them and phased it out on later expansions. They called it  attunement, or one needed a Key/Item/Reputation to get in. They figured out that the more players that can access your game is better. Turbine is slow.
  

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I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #44 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 3:32pm
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ILoveExploits wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 3:16pm:
C'mon, it's not that hard anymore. The freaking sigils even drop in rare chests.


The point isn't that it's difficult.  Nobody is saying that it's difficult.

The mechanism is unfun because it is random and there is no way to circumvent the random.

Maybe you'll get all the pieces in two or three passes through the flagging quests and incidental rares, or maybe you'll do all the flagging quests five times each, get 1500 slayers, and still need #3.

  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #45 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 4:49pm
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OldCoaly wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 3:32pm:
or maybe you'll do all the flagging quests five times each, get 1500 slayers, and still need #3.


Or maybe you'll do each flagging quest ten or more times on each difficulty and cap slayer and still not have all the pieces.  One of my toons is in just that position  :/
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #46 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 5:13pm
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Persiflage wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 4:49pm:
Or maybe you'll do each flagging quest ten or more times on each difficulty and cap slayer and still not have all the pieces.  One of my toons is in just that position  :/


This can be the problem.  A a few times I have outleveled the area on a TR before I got the sigil.  Since I don't plan on running Abbott on most toons, I rarely go back and complete the flag.  The only raids I am usually flagged for by the time I hit Heroic cap is Shroud and Von.  I run GH through Tor, but rarely get blooded.  I run Wiz King and OOB but usually skip Chains.  I run the flags and Litany but never run the sides.  I don't run heroic raids anyways, so who cares. 

I do flag for CiTW, FoT, and will go back and get DQ done for Epic runs typically.  But I don't usually mess with Titan, Abbott, ToD, LoB, or MA.  It's not about not liking them.  ToD has always been one of my favorite raids.  It's just not worth my time.

I agree with the comments about flagging.  The more accessible the content is, the better off everyone is.  Barriers to grouping are not helpful.  Attention spans and free time are in short supply for all but your most ardent gamers.  Don't make the content easy, but make being able to run it as easy as possible.
  
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #47 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 6:01pm
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Ok ok, you guys have a good point. Run every quest once is good enough for me.

Just don't do something dumb like DW and peak flag.
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

People who don't know how to fix their own mistakes cleanly
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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #48 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 6:08pm
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Asheras wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 5:13pm:
I run GH through Tor, but rarely get blooded.


It is no longer necessary to get blooded in order to run Reaver's Fate.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: U23 chatter about necro4 flagging
Reply #49 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 6:20pm
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Asheras wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 5:13pm:
The more accessible the content is, the better off everyone is.  Barriers to grouping are not helpful.  Attention spans and free time are in short supply for all but your most ardent gamers.  Don't make the content easy, but make being able to run it as easy as possible.


Can anyone here sew?  'Cos this should be a sampler on the DDO Producer's cubicle wall...
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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