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Harper Enhancement Tree (Read 39155 times)

NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #100 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 10:19am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 9:36am: Sorry, that was for Shuy.

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #101 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 10:55am	Print Post
	NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 10:18am: No. No to what? Imp Evasion toons with 48 mrr are significantly better off than toons with only 100mrr. Any builds with 100 PRR on live now are effectively at 150 PRR when this hits live. Monks are still the chosen god-like posterboys boy-wondrs of DDO. For an extra 16% damage mitigation theyre trading 25 dodge and 25 incorp. TL:DR yes.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #102 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:12am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 10:55am: No to what? Imp Evasion toons with 48 mrr are significantly better off than toons with only 100mrr. Any builds with 100 PRR on live now are effectively at 150 PRR when this hits live. Monks are still the chosen god-like posterboys boy-wondrs of DDO. For an extra 16% damage mitigation theyre trading 25 dodge and 25 incorp. TL:DR yes. Well damn. Then their goals haven't been met. It's not new for Turbine. I've always hated those god-like boy-wonder posterboys of DDO.

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #103 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:19am	Print Post
	NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:12am: Well damn. Then their goals haven't been met. It's not new for Turbine. I've always hated those god-like boy-wonder posterboys of DDO. That is what we are saying. The new prr/mrr changes actually buffed monks too. Even with the cap. Without it they just got even more of a buff. Either way cap or no cap it's a buff. Unless your monk had exactly over 150 prr. Then it's slight nerf if there was a cap. The mrr changes are by far more in favor of improved evasion. Since imp evasion is half on a fail. MRR 100 is half on a fail. But now the toons with improved evasion will get MRR 48. Meaning after taking half from improved evasion the mrr then kicks in reducing the halved by another 25%.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #104 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:26am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:19am: That is what we are saying. The new prr/mrr changes actually buffed monks too. Even with the cap. Without it they just got even more of a buff. Either way cap or no cap it's a buff. Unless your monk had exactly over 150 prr. Then it's slight nerf if there was a cap. The mrr changes are by far more in favor of improved evasion. Since imp evasion is half on a fail. MRR 100 is half on a fail. But now the toons with improved evasion will get MRR 48. Meaning after taking half from improved evasion the mrr then kicks in reducing the halved by another 25%. Wouldn't the opposite end of that stick be also strictly better now? Even without evasion or improved evasion, heavy armour toons with 100 MRR immediately get half damage. And even more if they save (half damage reflex save, I think). And there's that chance to totally mitigate damage while wearing shields...

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #105 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:48am	Print Post
	NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:26am: heavy armour toons with 100 MRR immediately get half damage Yes. But Improved Evasion still comes out ahead. Heavy armor did get a buff, but it isnt better than pajamas against magic. NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:26am: And even more if they save (half damage reflex save, I think) Correct. But if making saves is factored in then evasion takes 0. NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:26am: And there's that chance to totally mitigate damage while wearing shields... But you cant use swf with a shield so the dps is lower. They can use shield masery to get some melee power from combat style bonus, however, to help out. I guess they can also go dwarf ax/bastard sword and get glances, and combine that with THF feats for more glancing damage.
	« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:49am by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #106 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:54am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:48am: Yes. But Improved Evasion still comes out ahead. Heavy armor did get a buff, but it isnt better than pajamas against magic. Correct. But if making saves is factored in then evasion takes 0. But you cant use swf with a shield so the dps is lower. They can use shield masery to get some melee power from combat style bonus, however, to help out. I guess they can also go dwarf ax/bastard sword and get glances, and combine that with THF feats for more glancing damage. Still better than the present non-pajama paladins. But you're right. They still need more of a buff, rather than nerfing pajamas. Or just make it so that pajamas don't get PRR. How the hell can clothes you sleep in give protective properties against blades of doom anyway.

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Limpgimp Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 278 Joined: Jul 18^th, 2012	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #107 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 12:11pm	Print Post
	NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:12am: Well damn. Then their goals haven't been met. It's not new for Turbine. I've always hated those god-like boy-wonder posterboys of DDO. Guess it depends what you take as their goal, if you think the initial goal was "nerf pajamas, make armor the only option" then it failed dearly, if you consider the goal "make heavy armor non gimp and a viable option" the goal was achieved. I think the goal was achieved, wearing heavy armor you can do quests on EE, where traps and spell casters are present, and not die in the exact moment when a caster farts in your general direction.


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Oyster Korthos Resident Offline I Love Oysters! Posts: 71 Joined: Aug 11^th, 2014	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #108 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 12:15pm	Print Post
	SwashbucklerHater wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2014 at 10:56pm: YBecause 50% reduction (100prr) and 66%(200prr) isn't that much of a difference anymore. Why isn't it "that much of a difference"? Unless I'm mistaken, the formula is linear = 100/(100+prr) = and doesn't actually suffer diminishing returns despite the percentage becoming lower. Imagine you have incoming damage dealing 1000 hp physical. A guy with 1000hp total and 0 prr will die in 1 hit. Increase his prr to 100 and he dies in 2 hits (each hit dealing 1000(1/2)=500). Increase his prr to 200 and he dies in 3 hits (1000(1/3)=333.3). Increase it to 300 and he dies in 4 hits (1000*(1/4)=250). Every 100 prr give you exactly the same benefit. Anyway, PRR is not the main focus of the change. MRR is. And evasion toons don't have a lot of MRR, while heavy armor + tower shield gives a lot, which compensates for lack of Evasion. It wasn't the physical damage that killed evasionless melees, it was spells.
	« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 12:16pm by Oyster »

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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #109 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 12:24pm	Print Post
	Oyster wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 12:15pm: Why isn't it "that much of a difference"? Unless I'm mistaken, the formula is linear = 100/(100+prr) = and doesn't actually suffer diminishing returns despite the percentage becoming lower. Imagine you have incoming damage dealing 1000 hp physical. A guy with 1000hp total and 0 prr will die in 1 hit. Increase his prr to 100 and he dies in 2 hits (each hit dealing 1000(1/2)=500). Increase his prr to 200 and he dies in 3 hits (1000(1/3)=333.3). Increase it to 300 and he dies in 4 hits (1000*(1/4)=250). Every 100 prr give you exactly the same benefit. Anyway, PRR is not the main focus of the change. MRR is. And evasion toons don't have a lot of MRR, while heavy armor + tower shield gives a lot, which compensates for lack of Evasion. It wasn't the physical damage that killed evasionless melees, it was spells. It was not spells that killed my evasionless melees, evasionless casters, and evasion-ed melees/ranged/caster toons - it was the lag.

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SwashbucklerHater Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 337 Joined: Sep 2^nd, 2013	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #110 - Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 11:53pm	Print Post
	Oyster wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 12:15pm: Why isn't it "that much of a difference"? Unless I'm mistaken, the formula is linear = 100/(100+prr) = and doesn't actually suffer diminishing returns despite the percentage becoming lower. Imagine you have incoming damage dealing 1000 hp physical. A guy with 1000hp total and 0 prr will die in 1 hit. Increase his prr to 100 and he dies in 2 hits (each hit dealing 1000(1/2)=500). Increase his prr to 200 and he dies in 3 hits (1000(1/3)=333.3). Increase it to 300 and he dies in 4 hits (1000*(1/4)=250). Every 100 prr give you exactly the same benefit. It isn't a linear function. (y=100/(100+x)) You calculated it yourself. The first 100prr reduces the damage of each hit by 500, another 100prr reduces the damage of each hit by an additional 166, but 500 =/= 166. But you are right, every 100prr gives an additional hit you can take. And the formula for that is linear.


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GermanicusMaximus Dragon Raider Offline Thou shalt have no other trolls before me. Posts: 294 Joined: Feb 19^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #111 - Sep 6^th, 2014 at 7:12pm	Print Post
	Jelly_Muffin wrote on Aug 30^th, 2014 at 5:55pm: probably used that word before the cumstain that was to become you was sat on but thanks for taking the time out of your busy day cleaning the jizz booth to comment ..... makes me feel all fuzzy inside. Sorry Bambibeer, I didn't realize that was your sock. By the way, congrats on the latest batch you brewed up. Based on your post, the alcohol content of it is killer! Keep up the good work.�

	Family, Country, and the US stock market. Although, in a pinch, any convertible currency or liquid asset will do. Yobai wrote on Jun 18^th, 2014 at 6:15pm: I would rather give Thrudh a rim job. Bigjunk wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 12:21pm: That is some masterful trolling.
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nietzsche Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 52 Joined: Aug 9^th, 2012	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #112 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:27am	Print Post
	Anyone know how many TPs this crap will cost?


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Nuckinfutz Titan Demolisher Offline The Pig's a tease. Posts: 364 Location: Mom's Basement Joined: Aug 9^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #113 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:35am	Print Post
	nietzsche wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:27am: Anyone know how many TPs this crap will cost? It will be either a favor grind or something else after a couple of months. Why waste TP?

	Felgor wrote on May 21^st, 2013 at 3:45am: DDO died a long time ago, we just all have trouble admitting it.
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kum-gulp VoD Slasher Offline I Love Tired Vault Memes! Posts: 1810 Joined: Jul 16^th, 2010	Re: Harper Enhancement Tree Reply #114 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:44am	Print Post
	Given it was meh anyway, they've nerfed it and most decent builds' AP are tight anyway... why bother at all?


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