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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Lamannia re-Open Look #3 (Read 10065 times)
Dargon
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #25 - Sep 10th, 2014 at 10:20pm
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I've heard claims that Pally builds are now top dps in game aside from ranger wolves with SWF.
Has anyone tested (or can run the numbers) if this is the case vs. the Swashing dwarven defender build? 12brd/6ftr/2rog. I haven't looked too closely at the pally changes yet, so I don't know how the enhancements may help, and I don't know what the highest pally dps builds are based around, but I would think that even holy sword adding its perks would have a hard time keeping up with the growing crit range of Swashbuckler with 40+% base dblstrike and 30% attack speed.
  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #26 - Sep 10th, 2014 at 10:22pm
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Sorry Cordovan do your own research.
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #27 - Sep 10th, 2014 at 11:11pm
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Dargon wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 10:20pm:
40+% base dblstrike

I will be at 49 on my pure pally. Unboosted static value with Zeal lasting 20minutes.

Dargon wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 10:20pm:
growing crit range of Swashbuckler

Exploit Weakness is the best melee tier 5 ability, but that aside, Bastard Sword in DC crits on 13-20, glances 20%, uses swf for 30% speed, orbs add some decent extra effects and slots as well.

Capstone puts pally 10 melee power higher, light damage of 8d6 per hit scales with melee power up to 100%. Vorpals on 19-20 do an additional 500 damage to undead, vorpal auto stuns on all evil or chaotic outsiders. Cleave and Great Cleave included in enhancement tree saving feats. PRR of 180-220, mrr 100. Saves in 70s easily. Greater Stalwart on heavy armor for 20% hp and +6 to str or con. Divine Might and Smites.

From my limited testing, my impression is it has more dps than Zeus, Cetus, Swashbucklers, and anything else.
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2014 at 11:11pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #28 - Sep 10th, 2014 at 11:51pm
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Shadehater wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 10:22pm:
Sorry Cordovan do your own research.


That hurts. That's some serious name-calling right thar. You should apologize.


Rubbinns wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 11:11pm:
I will be at 49 on my pure pally. Unboosted static value with Zeal lasting 20minutes.

Exploit Weakness is the best melee tier 5 ability, but that aside, Bastard Sword in DC crits on 13-20, glances 20%, uses swf for 30% speed, orbs add some decent extra effects and slots as well.

Capstone puts pally 10 melee power higher, light damage of 8d6 per hit scales with melee power up to 100%. Vorpals on 19-20 do an additional 500 damage to undead, vorpal auto stuns on all evil or chaotic outsiders. Cleave and Great Cleave included in enhancement tree saving feats. PRR of 180-220, mrr 100. Saves in 70s easily. Greater Stalwart on heavy armor for 20% hp and +6 to str or con. Divine Might and Smites.

From my limited testing, my impression is it has more dps than Zeus, Cetus, Swashbucklers, and anything else.


Where is your dblstrike coming from? Come to think of it, bard may only be giving dblstrike from cores, which isn't a huge plus.

What's this whole "scales with 100% MP" anyway? Meaning it can be as much as doubled, but not more?

From what you say, I think it prob does indeed become the best option for an EE Deathwyrm tank.

Just noticed while looking at Lama notes, the defender stances now only work with medium or heavy armor!??! Shit, that Defender parody build just got the nerf bat shoved up somewhere unpleasant.

So that leaves me with two questions:
1. What becomes the new best race to run that sort of pally with? BF bc uber? Or PDK with fighter level removed? Or, stick with one concept of the dwarf defender, and go dwarf, and Use TYWA and dwarven axes as your main weapon instead of bastard sword.

2. Is pure pally best, or are there other good options to put in?
  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #29 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 12:08am
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Dargon wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 11:51pm:
What's this whole "scales with 100% MP" anyway? Meaning it can be as much as doubled, but not more?


It means the damage is multiplied by melee power straight up.  Scales by 100% would mean if you had 50 melee power you would do 150% base damage...If you had 100 melee power youd do 200% base damage.

If it scales by 200% you would doo 200 and 300 respectively.
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From what you say, I think it prob does indeed become the best option for an EE Deathwyrm tank.

No that is still a well build Palemaster.
Quote:
Just noticed while looking at Lama notes, the defender stances now only work with medium or heavy armor!??! Shit, that Defender parody build just got the nerf bat shoved up somewhere unpleasant.

Incorrect.  Heavy/Medium armor OR a shield.
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So that leaves me with two questions:
1. What becomes the new best race to run that sort of pally with? BF bc uber? Or PDK with fighter level removed? Or, stick with one concept of the dwarf defender, and go dwarf, and Use TYWA and dwarven axes as your main weapon instead of bastard sword.

Pick whatever race you want.  BF and Human seem to be best for Recons and the feat respectively.

Quote:
2. Is pure pally best, or are there other good options to put in?

Depends on teh build.
20 Pally is good.
18/2(whatever 2 fighter if a sword and board)
15/whatever/whatever
or the standards plashes of before
2 and 3 splash paladins...because evasion toons can still get a meaningful MRR and do as well if not better than before as well.
  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #30 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 12:22am
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Dargon wrote on Sep 10th, 2014 at 11:51pm:
Where is your dblstrike coming from


20 with Orb Mastery and ship buff.
9 from 3 martial epic lives
12 from Battlerager's Harness
10 Zeal

Temp boosts:
(10 boosted with 10 stacks Celestial Fervor- theoretically)
(100 boosted with Zeal of Righteousness)
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #31 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 12:41am
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Interesting, thanks. Good to know about the armor OR shield! That build stays viable for now then. And with the changes to combat feats giving melee power, and vanguard easily obtainable 5% combat speed, there will be a nice buff all around.
  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #32 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 12:42am
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Dargon wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 12:41am:
vanguard easily obtainable 5% combat speed

Does not stack with swf speed.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #33 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 12:52am
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 12:42am:
Does not stack with swf speed.


D:
Well that makes it a lot less tempting to invest enough to get that shield stun then...
  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #34 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 1:36am
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 12:22am:
20 with Orb Mastery and ship buff.
9 from 3 martial epic lives
12 from Battlerager's Harness
10 Zeal

Temp boosts:
(10 boosted with 10 stacks Celestial Fervor- theoretically)
(100 boosted with Zeal of Righteousness)


What/where is orb mastery?
I'm jealous of your battlerager's harness (only if you have it on live :-p)
Is ZoR currently giving double the amount of dblstrike? Noticed that I was being jumped to over 100%, even though it states only 50% at full stack.

My dblstrike breakdown in that swash build:
4 Swash cores
9 martial
3 eSpare Hand (want to upgrade to battlerager's)
8 Improved shield mastery
7 Legendary Shield master
5 Relentless fury when wearing black scale robe
5 PTWF
=41 base

If DC (with changes to OC, thinking of going DC more regularly)
10 Celestial (critting while swashing ain't no thang)

With 1 more Fate point
3 twist dblstrike from GMoF

Boosted
30 action boost (11 of them with ^action boost from LD in destiny or twisted)
100 ZoR
« Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2014 at 1:37am by Dargon »  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #35 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 1:56am
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Dargon wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 1:36am:
What/where is orb mastery

Shield Mastery. Orb gives bonus.

Dargon wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 1:36am:
if you have it on live

Didnt see one on Lama. Easy to get it on 20th list.

  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #36 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 2:20pm
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So does orb get dblstrike bonus from shield mastery feats or no?
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #37 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 2:54pm
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Dargon wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 2:20pm:
does orb get dblstrike bonus from shield mastery feats

yes
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #38 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:10pm
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Oooooh. Well then, definitely worth considering.

Orb just doesn't count as a shield for defender stances, right?
  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #39 - Sep 11th, 2014 at 11:05pm
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Dargon wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 10:10pm:
Orb just doesn't count as a shield for defender stances, right?

right
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #40 - Sep 13th, 2014 at 4:33am
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How is pure pally performing in Fury ED?

I understand that you lose some crit modifier by not being in DC, but you get tons of glancing boosts for your bastard/daxe and I'd think adrenaline cleaves would be nice. And Fury gets more passive MP than DC, is it not?

Is Fury better for trash DPS (DC still should be ahead for single-target, methinks)?
  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #41 - Sep 13th, 2014 at 5:48am
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You cannot be in defender stance when you use adrenaline.

Adrenaline only works on the first monster hit with a cleave attack.

So basically it is still terrible for melee's
  
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Re: Lamannia re-Open Look #3
Reply #42 - Sep 13th, 2014 at 10:42am
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Shadehater wrote on Sep 13th, 2014 at 5:48am:
You cannot be in defender stance when you use adrenaline.

Adrenaline only works on the first monster hit with a cleave attack.

So basically it is still terrible for melee's


I use Fury on my pure twf fighter b/c I also use bows. The adrenaline will proc on my doublestrike, so 43% of the time I get 2.

Obviously, I usually use it for the bow. But it's worth noting that, with twf, adrenaline fills right back up super fast. So you can use all 7 shots, then switch to twf and get them all back, repeat, etc.
« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2014 at 10:43am by Hiding »  
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