Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic LoTRO's MajMal (Read 1161 times)
Strakeln
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


Lumberjack

Posts: 12345
Joined: Jun 27th, 2009
LoTRO's MajMal
Mar 5th, 2015 at 9:12pm
Print Post  

http://lotrocommunity.com/forum/topic/3465-lotro-pvpersare-they-really-that-bad/...

Link goes to the first of several posts by a former LoTRO QA guy. Here's a fun tidbit:

Quote:
We lost a lot of subs that winter. Maybe players didn't want to spend a year in a big cave or maybe the endless server downtimes got old. But either way there was never, ever any self-examination when it came to player dissatisfaction. It couldn't possibly be that the devs were putting out sloppy, uninspired work or substituting mindless grinds in place of meaningful, engaging gameplay. There was never a dev fired for poor work-sometimes it seemed like a cabal where if nobody admitted the quality of the game was down, nobody would get blamed for it.
  

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Starkjade
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


Rogue Scholar

Posts: 7082
Location: Canadia
Joined: Aug 27th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #1 - Mar 5th, 2015 at 9:41pm
Print Post  
God, gamers use a lot of absolutely incomprehensible language (when you don't play their game.)

I wonder if that site is treated the same way as this one by Turbine.
  

Two sips from the cup of human kindness and I'm shitfaced
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Arkat
Chonus Christ
********
Offline


Hola Bienvenido

Posts: 12345
Location: Wyoming
Joined: Jul 13th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #2 - Mar 5th, 2015 at 10:23pm
Print Post  
Even the LotRO people knew Kate was bad news.
  

Stand on hills of long-forgotten yesterdays...

Looking for a sign that the Universal Mind has written you into the Passion Play.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Lehane
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 116
Joined: Feb 4th, 2014
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #3 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 1:42am
Print Post  
Quote:
This is my take: it was a gimmick, cooked up by Rick I'm sure. Now Rick was an alright guy but he fell into the same 'celebrity' trap that (imo) Steefel did as execprod and whereas Meg and later Andy C genuinely identified and respected the community he never seemed to do so-in his own mind he was a big wheel. He was also trying to stay relevant.

The whole Council thing imo, for all practical purposes, is as said a gimmick. A well-meaning gimmick but silly in a lot of respects.


lol, good shit there
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2015 at 1:43am by Lehane »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Lehane
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 116
Joined: Feb 4th, 2014
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #4 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 1:51am
Print Post  
Quote:
Good example was PvMP stars. Shortly after I got to Turbine Jen removed them from the UI. Being a star hugger I charged over and asked for an explanation.
Jen: 'Players complained about all the star hugging.'
Me: 'Who?'
Jen: 'On the forums...'
So I went and checked the PvMP forums and found a single thread, at the top of the page, complaining about them (the OP incidentally was a champ...not a class known for being able to show off stars). I realized that she had gone to the forums fishing for some easy change she could make that could be said to be addressing 'player concerns'. And that wouldn't be the last time by a long shot that I, as an active and socially connected player, would be told by a dev who didn't play LOTRO themselves 'what players want'. So...yeah whenever I hear Turbine claiming it changed this or that based on 'feed back', I tend to roll my eyes.


Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Lehane
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 116
Joined: Feb 4th, 2014
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #5 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 2:18am
Print Post  
lotro v ddo

Quote:
I can say that nobody on LOTRO, especially the older hands in QA, was surprised DDO was a lame duck. As for the DDO team...Turbine was surprisingly ptovincial; there was a sense of a real rivalry between the LOTRO and DDO teams, probably because of the slender resources we were all vying for. LOTRO tended to view DDO as a flop that was wasting resources better spent on LOTRO. DDO felt they were held back by LOTRO hogging resources. As an aside, the Turbine/Codemasters relationship was downright acidic. We couldn't stand their often confrontational attitude and they felt we were (to put it bluntly) Yanks douching up Tolkien's vision


I wont bother posting anymore but that is some good reading.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Asheras
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


This is why we can't have
nice things.

Posts: 10230
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jun 9th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #6 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 11:19am
Print Post  
Geez that guy can post.  Good stuff.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mudfud
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 1123
Joined: Nov 17th, 2011
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #7 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 12:18pm
Print Post  
Wow that stuff Aylwen posted is actually even better then things I expected from majmal here. And I never even tried lotro.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Strakeln
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


Lumberjack

Posts: 12345
Joined: Jun 27th, 2009
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #8 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 1:57pm
Print Post  
Quote:
Kate and F2P
Kate got lots of attention for the DDO f2p transition. A cynic might suggest that the Paizs had flat lined DDO already and when Ascherons Call's concurrency numbers are beating DDO on a nightly basis, you can only go up from there. LOTRO was certainly ailing when they made the call to go f2p. We all assumed it would happen eventually but not so soon. In March or thereabouts in '10 an email went out from Crowley stating that LOTRO's US subs were down to around 85k (the only time specific sub numbers were ever mentioned even in-house while I was there) and could we maybe ask our friends to try the game? But nobody wanted the f2p thing. It basically said, yeah our game sucks so bad we won't even ask you to pay for it. We knew our community was the best thing we had going for us and knew we were going to substantially lose that when the f2p floodgates were thrown open.


Grin Grin

Also:


Sometimes it takes a picture of a shitty workplace to realize just how nice you have it. Yeesh.
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2015 at 2:00pm by Strakeln »  

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Wipe
VoD Slasher
*****
Offline



Posts: 1917
Joined: Mar 26th, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #9 - Mar 7th, 2015 at 6:12am
Print Post  
Wow, that' really good read. Thanks for the link.
Quote:
As a raider, it's terribly sad to see the fellowships being broken apart the way that had with lack of grouping, lack of legitimate end game, poor scaling, loot rewards not being commensurate with difficulty, massive dps boost, trait trees dumbing down the classes and encouraging mindless button mashing for the win,  and solo-centric playstyle highly encouraged.

Quote:
The trend towards easymode gameplay was really more of a reaction to the problem of low new player retention than specific player complaints. We found that many new players would play through the trial period or until maybe level 20 and then fade away. So the thinking generally was, if we speed along new players further into the game, they'll consequently become more invested and stick around. It didn't seem to matter to anyone that even WoW had a massive new player turnover rate. In fact their average player 'lifespan' according to a study done around 2010 was six months-three months less than LOTRO and a full year less than City of Heroes (those CoH players loved their game!)
Looking back on the whole MMO scene in that era, WoW's mass success really distorted the picture. While the lure of WoW riches brought in the investors you needed to make the games in the first place...they were going to expect a return before long and 40 or 50 or 60 million dollar development costs take a while to earn back. So you end up in a situation that comes dangerously close to being a ponzi scheme...using new investor capital to pay off your old investors. And the company execs are going to be pretty darn anxious to see revenue coming in, no matter what market reality suggested. That anxiety is going to be kicked down the ladder: get those numbers up.

But sometimes devs cater to players simply to be seen as doing something for them whether necessary or not and it's easy enough to pull up the forums and fish for cheap ways to do that.

Quote:
As for new raids and instances, I certainly think they would have at least retained many of the old core players. In a game whose revenue stream is strongly dependant on micotransactions, the diehards are a big potential source of income. I said elsewhere that a big chunk of the monthly revenue from FB games like the late Island Paradise came from a relatively small-in fact very small-group of customers who absolutely loved the games. It makes perfect sense too. If you have been playing LOTRO for years it isn't a hard call to dump some cash into it. What's an extra 20 or 30 bucks here and there (or even more) for a hobby that you have devoted so much time to? But by not giving those veteran players any incentive to stick around-no new end game content, head-smack PvMP changes, etc-you will start to lose them. Then your revenue depends on casuals who, statistically, are extremely unlikely to play longer than a few months and will pay very little while they do.


I could quote the whole thread but oh my fucking God :
Quote:
The Class Revamp-for all the reasons already given. It nuked what little individuality LOTRO had left for no gain in gameplay and simply alienated older players who were perfectly content with the system they had been using for over half a decade. And if anyone at Turbine believed skill trees would bring in new players...you know that saying about people being promoted to their level of incompetence?



   

« Last Edit: Mar 7th, 2015 at 6:36am by Wipe »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Flav
Vault Frog
*
Offline


One Frog to Rule them
All!

Posts: 9984
Location: Land of the Frogs
Joined: Aug 29th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #10 - Mar 7th, 2015 at 12:08pm
Print Post  
Yeah, everytime he wrote LoTRO, I parsed DDO and went WTF : That's exactly what happened to us too.

  

Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Asheras
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


This is why we can't have
nice things.

Posts: 10230
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jun 9th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #11 - Mar 7th, 2015 at 8:08pm
Print Post  
Strakeln wrote on Mar 6th, 2015 at 1:57pm:
Grin Grin

Also:
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt91/Fwseal/739914_185770818230535_1335666012...

Sometimes it takes a picture of a shitty workplace to realize just how nice you have it. Yeesh.


No shit.  4 feet each with a shelf and two drawers.  Crammed in like sardines.  You get to know folks real well that way.  No thanks.  Also, coding on those screens?  Geez.  What are those?  15"?  The ergonomics are attrocious.  And the trash piled up in the extra cubicles? 

The action figures and posters of all the fun geek stuff looks cool, but otherwise, it's a mess. 

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Strakeln
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


Lumberjack

Posts: 12345
Joined: Jun 27th, 2009
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #12 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 3:16am
Print Post  
Asheras wrote on Mar 7th, 2015 at 8:08pm:
No shit.  4 feet each with a shelf and two drawers.  Crammed in like sardines.  You get to know folks real well that way.  No thanks.  Also, coding on those screens?  Geez.  What are those?  15"?  The ergonomics are attrocious.  And the trash piled up in the extra cubicles? 

The action figures and posters of all the fun geek stuff looks cool, but otherwise, it's a mess. 


They might get a pass on the screens - keep in mind that picture may be more than a decade old. Lotta places were still handing out CRTs a decade ago. They look like 19" to me, it may be the 4:3 that makes them look so small now.

But goddamn those cubes are fucking miserable. Not even an ounce of privacy. Dayum.
  

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mystafyi
Abbot Raider
**
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 836
Joined: Nov 10th, 2010
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #13 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 6:34am
Print Post  
Strakeln wrote on Mar 8th, 2015 at 3:16am:
But goddamn those cubes are fucking miserable. Not even an ounce of privacy. Dayum.


Cubes?!? Those are long flat bench's with side partitions every 4 feet.
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2015 at 6:35am by mystafyi »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
deftest
Titan Demolisher
****
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 314
Joined: Jul 13th, 2011
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #14 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 11:54am
Print Post  
was going to post this ..see that strake already did ....somone on sto told me about it.. someone had  linked all of his posts on the sto forums as an example of a shit company that sto seemed to be a clone of
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2015 at 11:55am by deftest »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Strakeln
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


Lumberjack

Posts: 12345
Joined: Jun 27th, 2009
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #15 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 12:13pm
Print Post  
mystafyi wrote on Mar 8th, 2015 at 6:34am:
Cubes?!? Those are long flat bench's with side partitions every 4 feet.

True. I was being way too generous in my description.

Really kills the romance, doesn't it?
  

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OldCoaly
Puppy Farmer
****
Offline


Why did you think this
time would be different?

Posts: 1564
Location: WAAHH!!!Testing stuff is HARD!
Joined: Jul 1st, 2011
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #16 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 1:10pm
Print Post  
Strakeln wrote on Mar 8th, 2015 at 12:13pm:
Really kills the romance, doesn't it?


The romance is restored by the "intimate" perimeter lighting which has the added benefits of lowering the energy bills and preventing complaints about "too much artificial lighting".
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Asheras
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


This is why we can't have
nice things.

Posts: 10230
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jun 9th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #17 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 7:53pm
Print Post  
I've seen better working facilities in an Indian call center.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mudfud
Shroud Slacker
***
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 1123
Joined: Nov 17th, 2011
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #18 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 9:40pm
Print Post  
Asheras wrote on Mar 8th, 2015 at 7:53pm:
I've seen better working facilities in an Indian call center.


I'm more surprised you have actually seen an Indian call center.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Darth Anonymous
Titan Demolisher
****
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 366
Joined: Nov 28th, 2012
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #19 - Mar 8th, 2015 at 10:46pm
Print Post  
Talk about immersion. Those poor bastards had to work in the Mines of Moria while creating the fucking Mines of Moria. The only thing missing in that picture is a fucking parakeet for the Fire/Safety Manager to monitor to make sure those poor dataminers did not run out of oxygen. Chilean miners trapped in a fucking cave in have a nicer work environment than the average Turbine employee.
« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2015 at 4:33pm by Darth Anonymous »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Yobai
Epic Poster
*****
Offline



Posts: 4126
Joined: Jul 26th, 2012
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #20 - Mar 13th, 2015 at 7:38pm
Print Post  
mystafyi wrote on Mar 8th, 2015 at 6:34am:
Cubes?!? Those are long flat bench's with side partitions every 4 feet.



shit they had more room when Monsarrat and Gaffney and those guys used to work out of their living rooms.
  

Revaulting wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16pm:
Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dark_Helmet
Wielder of the Schwartz
****
Offline


I hate you!

Posts: 1176
Joined: Feb 14th, 2010
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #21 - Mar 16th, 2015 at 12:50am
Print Post  
Asheras wrote on Mar 8th, 2015 at 7:53pm:
I've seen better working facilities in an Indian call center.


Been to several call centers (even UPS in Ca and Tx) that looked pretty much like this and behind you would be the glass offices where management could see everyone but the workers wouldn't be looking at managers - unless they weren't doing their job.

This is pretty much how I envisioned the Turbine site. I have seen worse. Much worse.

I usually visited high tech campus sites (Bay area such as Google, EBay, Cisco), but I have also been to the the WB and EA campus for briefings and got to walk around and see the working conditions (although that was YEARS ago). The idea that they were setting up a West Coast building but didn't have it staffed was no suprise as the cost of living in Ca is way more than Ma. Turbine could hire 3 people for the cost of 1 body in Ca - not to mention the operating costs per sq. ft.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Asheras
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


This is why we can't have
nice things.

Posts: 10230
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jun 9th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #22 - Mar 16th, 2015 at 5:17pm
Print Post  
mudfud wrote on Mar 8th, 2015 at 9:40pm:
I'm more surprised you have actually seen an Indian call center.


Not in person.  Just photos.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Asheras
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


This is why we can't have
nice things.

Posts: 10230
Location: Ohio
Joined: Jun 9th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: LoTRO's MajMal
Reply #23 - Mar 16th, 2015 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
Dark_Helmet wrote on Mar 16th, 2015 at 12:50am:
Been to several call centers (even UPS in Ca and Tx) that looked pretty much like this and behind you would be the glass offices where management could see everyone but the workers wouldn't be looking at managers - unless they weren't doing their job.

This is pretty much how I envisioned the Turbine site. I have seen worse. Much worse.

I usually visited high tech campus sites (Bay area such as Google, EBay, Cisco), but I have also been to the the WB and EA campus for briefings and got to walk around and see the working conditions (although that was YEARS ago). The idea that they were setting up a West Coast building but didn't have it staffed was no suprise as the cost of living in Ca is way more than Ma. Turbine could hire 3 people for the cost of 1 body in Ca - not to mention the operating costs per sq. ft.


Yep.  And if they were that tight with the facilities, they probably weren't generous with the compensation packages either.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint