Hag Master wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 7:22pm:


And here I thought I was going to become Vault MVP with my .45 posts per day average. To be fair, I read a lot more than I post.

I want nice things as much as anybody, and I was drooling over the possibility of having another +1 crit multiplier on my mechanic (I don't currently have an assassin or thacrobat), but two things gave me pause when it came to Lethality: 1) that build options get eliminated when two 18 cores are a can't miss and work together and 2) we have been a little too supportive of silly creep-crazy changes like Holy Sword. If the counter argument is that there is still more power needed in those individual trees to keep up with the other recent changes, I can get behind that if the math supports it. Otherwise, and I'm sorry for the redundancy, we lose out on build variety if these can't miss abilities go into the late cores of different trees, and build variety is what this game primarily has to offer.

I do have to ask; if there is such a concern about missing out on powerful abilities, why not make a well-reasoned case in the thread that is clearly being read by devs instead of complaining in the Vault?

FM wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 9:53pm:


Actually, putting a "must have" ability in multiple trees improves build variety.

Putting a "Meh" ability in multiple trees degrades variety because there are fewer distinct abilities to choose from, but a tree that precludes taking a "Must Have" will get pruned from build choices entirely, resulting in less overall variety.

I agree that build variety is desireable, I disagree with the premise that the "Hard Choices" approach advances that goal.

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For Sireth sure.

I was still leaning towards druid though. There is enough AP for KTA so divine might is a wash. 1 racial, 31assasin, 35TA, = 13 harper  (I was actually tempted to try it out as a primarily int build)

I quite liked the look of the TOEE staff with 1 druid:

8[1d6] (5 base +1.5 shillelagh +1.5 A dance of flowers) 13-20 crit threat, (19 base -1 TA, -1 DC -4 I.Crit)
13-18 * 5 multiplier (base 3 + 1 TA +1 Lethality)
19-20 * 7 multiplier (5 + 1 OC, +1 master of forms)

Oh what could have been

Tincan wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 8:41am:


Eh, my monk has over 100prr, the only hit I'd take on an 18/1/1 is -15 from Iron Skin.

With the initial proposal:
Sireth: 4.5[d10], 11-18 * 4, 19-20 * 6
(24.75base+8) * 53 (9normal attacks + 32 attacks [11-18*4 range] + 12 attacks [19-20*6 range])
=1735.75 damage per 20 swings.

Elemental Bloom: 8[1d6], 13-18 * 5, 19-20 * 7
(36 base damage+7) * 55 (11normal attacks + 30[13-18*5 range] + 14 [19-20*7 range]
=2365 damage per 20 swings

It's worth mentioning that the crit profile on the Elemental Bloom is technically better. With Lethality they both had 44 crits per 20 swings, but the elemental bloom gets 2 extra non crit attacks.

Without Lethality per 20 swings:
Sireth has 34 crits + 9 non crits = 43
Bloom has 36 crits + 11 non crits = 47

Munkenmo wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 9:13am:

Now add 30 dmg on average to sireth from lightning strike, cloudburst plus supreme good and you will notice that they are pretty much even.

Also fom is very important, which usually is hard to fit in your gear layout.

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Acrobats basically have fom.

Lightning Strike = 9.15, Cloudburst = 8.75, Supreme good = 10.5

Sireth = 98.8125 per swing
E.Bloom = 101.05 per swing

It's close, but the bloom does come out slightly ahead, before factoring in it's procs (which are admittedly pretty shit)

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Fair point, I use the flask for fom anyway.

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Sorry, must have contracted some butthurt from an Epic Red Dragon Helm Thread.

I give a flying trolldung of what you think of my agenda. I'd advise you making a sensible point on the motherboards for lethality if that would be within your capabilities.


Meursault wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 9:23am:


You're arguing exactly down my alley.

Yes, I have the combined powers of earth, fire, wind, water and love over Sev.

Sometimes i wonder what you fucktards are doing over there. Instead of helping fix said old bugs, all you do is cry about this and that.

You really make me sick.

Munkenmo wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 9:13am:


Sireth would have gotten a better increase in LD, with both variants w/ Lethality (not counting 19-20 mods) sitting at 43 hits out of 20 swings, which is 6 up for Bloom and 8 up for Sireth.

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Did you discover rhethorical questions this morning? Maybe tomorrow you'll find 'reading comprehension', it's not like I'm particularly obscure when it comes to 'why'. Also, FM's post.