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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #25 - May 9th, 2015 at 11:55pm
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Barkabout wrote on May 9th, 2015 at 7:33pm:
just add a kitty and all will be fine

http://data1.whicdn.com/images/98562207/large.jpg


And now I have two heroes...  Grin
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #26 - May 9th, 2015 at 11:55pm
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DropBear wrote on May 9th, 2015 at 10:24pm:
This is Severance-Pay's baby, so you can bet it will be overpowered.

That and they have to sell something. I'm expecting to tr all my toons into a warlock and get the nerf bat across my head in 3 months.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #27 - May 10th, 2015 at 2:24am
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Rubbinns wrote on May 9th, 2015 at 11:55pm:
That and they have to sell something. I'm expecting to tr all my toons into a warlock and get the nerf bat across my head in 3 months.


Warlock can be released horribly overpriced and terrible to play. They will still turn a profit on it just from people reactivating completionist.

Once they realize this, expect a new class to roll out every year.
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #28 - May 10th, 2015 at 3:57am
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5 Foot Step wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 2:24am:
Warlock can be released horribly overpriced and terrible to play. They will still turn a profit on it just from people reactivating completionist.

Once they realize this, expect a new class to roll out every year.

They are too dumb for that.
  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #29 - May 10th, 2015 at 3:59am
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https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454324-Producer-s-Letter?p=5554603&vie...

severance pay quote from march
Quote:
~ We don't plan for Warlock to be our last new class but now we are taking about long timetable well beyond any announced plans.

~ We'd love to do gnome but we have no specific plans to talk about at the moment. It is on our long list.

~ It is unlikely we will be modifying existing iconics. It would be a difficult and time consuming task that would likely mess with existing iconic characters.

~ We'd rather just do new races than new iconics.

~ Fighter and cleric already have 3 trees. We still need to add trees to Favored Soul, Druid, and Artificer to finish their 3 trees.

Sev~


also expect any races added to the game to have minimum graphics alterations to current game

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454324-Producer-s-Letter?p=5557277&vie...

Quote:
Would love to do tieflings. One difficulty is tails are really expensive and adding them with no tails might be unpopular; I suspect there will be players looking upon that unfavorably. The other is the art problem of what to do with the interaction of horns versus helms; do we make small horns that disappear when wearing a helm; or large horns that poke out of helms and let the player decide what helms look good with it?

Sev~


so expect new classes, not races

but i expect after warlock, expect more harper trees than actual classes since one tree will be cheaper than a fully realized class

besides wasnt harper agent on the short list of next iconic heroes that were scrapped?
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #30 - May 10th, 2015 at 4:16am
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The quote about tieflings is kinda old and today I have yet to understand if sevcretin is serious about what he wrote or is just plain dumb.

Costly to make tails and horns? Is it a new twisted kind of way of being retarded? I can understand they have to start "from scratch" since it would be a new race but sev almost make it seems like it's a fucking long time investment.

I'll decide to buy warlock based on the preview. I hope they won't make an OP class to lure players in paying money to easy win the game only to nerf once the next best thing hits another update
  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #31 - May 10th, 2015 at 4:19am
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the 1st quote is older by 2 days
quotes from 2 months ago
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #32 - May 10th, 2015 at 5:03am
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5 Foot Step wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 2:24am:
Once they realize this, expect a new class to roll out every year.

high hopes there for another year.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #33 - May 10th, 2015 at 5:17am
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Artorias wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:16am:
Costly to make tails and horns? Is it a new twisted kind of way of being retarded? I can understand they have to start "from scratch" since it would be a new race but sev almost make it seems like it's a fucking long time investment.


The most expensive updates are always new animations.
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #34 - May 10th, 2015 at 5:18am
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Rubbinns wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 5:03am:
high hopes there for another year.


You think Fernando got it wrong? What was his quote again?
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #35 - May 10th, 2015 at 2:02pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 5:18am:
What was his quote again?

something about them being able to do what they want and people will keep paying. eventually that wears thin and people start leaving. And they have to make the class op. unless they plan on just forcing completionists to maintain their feat. The larger population will not buy it.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #36 - May 10th, 2015 at 4:39pm
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Angry I was hoping for more iconics. That doesn't seem like it would be as big of an investment to do than new classes.

Dwarf barbarian, elf ranger, halfling whatever.

Oh well, I guess my newly tr'd completionist will be forced to play through a life that seems uninteresting. I hope I am wrong. Yeah, I'm sure Turbine will do this right.  Undecided
  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #37 - May 10th, 2015 at 5:04pm
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Vindicator wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:39pm:
Angry I was hoping for more iconics. That doesn't seem like it would be as big of an investment to do than new classes.

Dwarf barbarian, elf ranger, halfling whatever.

Oh well, I guess my newly tr'd completionist will be forced to play through a life that seems uninteresting. I hope I am wrong. Yeah, I'm sure Turbine will do this right.  Undecided


Iconics were the Pet/resume Padding project of a dev that is no longer there... Like Normal/Hard/Elite loot was one of the Plume de Soleil Pet Project.

Don't expect them to show up again in the foreseable future.

  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #38 - May 10th, 2015 at 5:09pm
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I am such a TR junkie myself I am sure I will end up getting Warlock for something new. There are of course billions of build options so I have plenty to keep me busy.
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #39 - May 10th, 2015 at 7:06pm
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Vindicator wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:39pm:
Angry I was hoping for more iconics. That doesn't seem like it would be as big of an investment to do than new classes.

Dwarf barbarian, elf ranger, halfling whatever.

Oh well, I guess my newly tr'd completionist will be forced to play through a life that seems uninteresting. I hope I am wrong. Yeah, I'm sure Turbine will do this right.  Undecided


Iconics were a good idea that was hashed up.
In other words, typical Turdbine.

To my mind, Iconics were intended to be a short circuit/stepping stone into high level content for players like Fail who are skilled in other games, and aren't interested in trying to catch up on the grind to 15.  They just want to play some decent content without hand holding and decide if they like the game or not. Once they TR, they can go back and experience the low level stuff I guess.

They had great potential, even for us vets.  I can create a toon at any level between 1-15.  So I can join and play with guildies and friends at short notice.
The gear isn't great, but it is workable.

The shortcomings were.
1. The balance.  Everything but Bladeforged is junk.  BF were/are overpowered.
2. The fixed class.  I understand the concept - it ain't an iconic if you can just change the classes.  The problem is the race/class combos were quite restrictive and in one case, stupid (sun elf INT based Cleric?).
3. The pre chosen paths are appalling.  What they needed was to get some player advice what a lvl 15 Pally should look like, make three paths (eg. THF, TWF, S&B) and let player's choose.  At least choose feats that are useful.  Give the option to have enhancements done as well.  This allows for both a fast play or semi-customised option.
4. The gear was a little mediocre.  Given it is all BTC and unsellable, surely they could have given +6 to primary stats?  It all just reeks of someone who doesn't play the game much and know what is about right.

If they had that versatility, they could have locked Iconics in as pure class lvl 15's.

But the cynics can now argue, they made it the way they did to further store sales of +1 heart, and sell lots of BF etc.

It's like when they create stuff at Turdbine, they just jumbled random shit together until it stays in a pile, call it done and sell it.

The Iconics concept was good in that it allowed new players to experience high level play.  The downside is that on their own, they would get decimated as they don't understand any of the systems or mechanics. 
But it did give the option for experienced players to bring friends and guildies along on higher level quests to hopefully get the bug to play a little longer.
Now, I like the versatility of having lvl 15 bank toons that can go get their own Coin Lords and Kundarak Favor.



  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #40 - May 10th, 2015 at 8:42pm
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Vindicator wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:39pm:
Angry I was hoping for more iconics. That doesn't seem like it would be as big of an investment to do than new classes.

Dwarf barbarian, elf ranger, halfling whatever.

Oh well, I guess my newly tr'd completionist will be forced to play through a life that seems uninteresting. I hope I am wrong. Yeah, I'm sure Turbine will do this right.  Undecided


Keep in mind that adding more iconic would mean to add more iconic past lifes. This would increase the power creep even more than it already is.
shadar kai have 3 dodge when maxed (like taking dodge feat)
pdk give you 9 prr that is a really nice bonus if you play a low armored toon

They will most likely focus on new classes with lesser past lifes as bonuses. Wonder what will warlock get tough?
  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #41 - May 10th, 2015 at 8:51pm
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Artorias wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 8:42pm:
Keep in mind that adding more iconic would mean to add more iconic past lifes. This would increase the power creep even more than it already is.
shadar kai have 3 dodge when maxed (like taking dodge feat)
pdk give you 9 prr that is a really nice bonus if you play a low armored toon

They will most likely focus on new classes with lesser past lifes as bonuses. Wonder what will warlock get tough?


Keep in mind that you can only have 1 iconic PL feat active at a time - so no matter how many you get, it would be a trade-off as to which one to take.
  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #42 - May 10th, 2015 at 10:24pm
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DropBear wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 7:06pm:
2. The fixed class.  I understand the concept - it ain't an iconic if you can just change the classes.  The problem is the race/class combos were quite restrictive and in one case, stupid (sun elf INT based Cleric?).


Morninglord should have been Aasimar IMO.

DropBear wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 8:51pm:
Keep in mind that you can only have 1 iconic PL feat active at a time - so no matter how many you get, it would be a trade-off as to which one to take.


Iconic PLs have an active component and a passive component. 1 active at a time, but the passives all stack.
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #43 - May 10th, 2015 at 10:35pm
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Just give Warlock the orb, druid ammo, & archer imbue sploits, and call it a class.
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #44 - May 10th, 2015 at 10:56pm
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DropBear wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 7:06pm:
Iconics were a good idea that was hashed up.
In other words, typical Turdbine.

To my mind, Iconics were intended to be a short circuit/stepping stone into high level content for players like Fail who are skilled in other games, and aren't interested in trying to catch up on the grind to 15.  They just want to play some decent content without hand holding and decide if they like the game or not. Once they TR, they can go back and experience the low level stuff I guess.

They had great potential, even for us vets.  I can create a toon at any level between 1-15.  So I can join and play with guildies and friends at short notice.
The gear isn't great, but it is workable.

The shortcomings were.
1. The balance.  Everything but Bladeforged is junk.  BF were/are overpowered.
2. The fixed class.  I understand the concept - it ain't an iconic if you can just change the classes.  The problem is the race/class combos were quite restrictive and in one case, stupid (sun elf INT based Cleric?).
3. The pre chosen paths are appalling.  What they needed was to get some player advice what a lvl 15 Pally should look like, make three paths (eg. THF, TWF, S&B) and let player's choose.  At least choose feats that are useful.  Give the option to have enhancements done as well.  This allows for both a fast play or semi-customised option.
4. The gear was a little mediocre.  Given it is all BTC and unsellable, surely they could have given +6 to primary stats?  It all just reeks of someone who doesn't play the game much and know what is about right.



If they had that versatility, they could have locked Iconics in as pure class lvl 15's.

But the cynics can now argue, they made it the way they did to further store sales of +1 heart, and sell lots of BF etc.

It's like when they create stuff at Turdbine, they just jumbled random shit together until it stays in a pile, call it done and sell it.

The Iconics concept was good in that it allowed new players to experience high level play.  The downside is that on their own, they would get decimated as they don't understand any of the systems or mechanics. 
But it did give the option for experienced players to bring friends and guildies along on higher level quests to hopefully get the bug to play a little longer.
Now, I like the versatility of having lvl 15 bank toons that can go get their own Coin Lords and Kundarak Favor.





I mostly agree that there are parts of the iconics that horribly implemented like the sun elf getting bonus to int. I agree also that this was another instance where lack of game knowledge from decision makers at Turbine was glaring.

They do help skip content on toons that might be boring at low levels though, and if the class you are pigeon holes into is workable with the build you want to do, it is still fine just to get a past life out of the way. Screw the parts of racial trees that suck. Heck, I made my wizard a sun elf with 18 wiz, 1 rogue and I like him a lot better than when he was 18 wiz, 2 rogue since heavy armor is so nice now, and I can get any trap in the game with 1 rogue level anyway.

Btw, how many folks ran through EE Wheloon after iconics were introduced and thought, "I gotta roll a shadar-Kai and get that chain whippy thing so I can tear up mobs like the mobs just tore me up!"  I still chuckle when I see folks try that.
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2015 at 10:57pm by Vindicator »  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #45 - May 10th, 2015 at 11:48pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 10:24pm:
Morninglord should have been Aasimar IMO.


Agreed. 
But I wouldn't have cared if they made up an Elf species and made it WIS based.  It's not like they're following the DnD rules anymore anyway.

5 Foot Step wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 10:24pm:
Iconic PLs have an active component and a passive component. 1 active at a time, but the passives all stack.


True, true.  Forgot about the passives.
I haven't really looked at the Iconics PL's as was still working my way thru the main spheres.
I suspect the triple epic completionists are already juggernauts, so an extra few iconic PL's wouldn't distort the power imbalance much worse than it already is, and there wouldn't be that many of them.
  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #46 - May 11th, 2015 at 2:05am
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It's not really iconic if they just make crap up, is it?

Then again, there aren't really any other options for a wis race unless we introduce stuff like Githzerai of Svirfneblin. I would have been ok with doing Aasimar but calling it "Planetouched Elf" or whatever, but it's not like Amaunator is an Elf racial deity, so I'm not sure why they went elf in the first place other than that they were already decided on 2 human based iconics in PDK and SK.
  

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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #47 - May 12th, 2015 at 9:56am
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It sounds like no matter what way you put it the warlock is going to be a fairly boring class. Its basically going to be a mm spamming sorc build? but maybe not, guess we will have to wait for the preview to find out.
  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #48 - May 12th, 2015 at 12:13pm
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SmokeMonster wrote on May 12th, 2015 at 9:56am:
It sounds like no matter what way you put it the warlock is going to be a fairly boring class. Its basically going to be a mm spamming sorc build? but maybe not, guess we will have to wait for the preview to find out.


This is kind of how I feel about it.  Feels like the Shiradi MM spammer for procs build.  I'm not sure we really needed this class.  But whatever.
  
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Re: Warlock preview
Reply #49 - May 12th, 2015 at 1:51pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 2:05am:
It's not really iconic if they just make crap up, is it?

Then again, there aren't really any other options for a wis race unless we introduce stuff like Githzerai of Svirfneblin. I would have been ok with doing Aasimar but calling it "Planetouched Elf" or whatever, but it's not like Amaunator is an Elf racial deity, so I'm not sure why they went elf in the first place other than that they were already decided on 2 human based iconics in PDK and SK.



Yes, #wordsmatter

Divines were pretty bitchin' pre-MotU.  Maybe some of the lack of Wisdom race was a sort of "balance" pass?

But this is more likely:

Vindicator wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 10:56pm:
this was another instance where lack of game knowledge from decision makers at Turbine was glaring.

  

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