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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #25 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 6:14pm
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Strakeln wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 3:35pm:
That's something most games don't have - the excitement over loot. I remember spending days at work dreaming about the loot I might get on an upcoming loot weekend, and planning entire guild events around loot runs.

Other games, it's just stat progression gear. Nothing cool. Most games I barely even look at the gear, just do a quick red/blue/green analysis of the attributes and either equip it or junk it.

It strikes me as incredibly odd that games would want to eliminate one of their best carrots.


You can only attribute that to a fundamental misunderstanding of their game and what their customers want.
The chance at rare combos of loot actually inspired people to run and supported the AH/trade economy.
So it got feather'd - why has it never been undone?
Because they still don't understand.
They're probably afraid that their piss-poor attempts at named items will be overshadowed by randgen loot.
We need to understand that this dev team is professionally trained and know more about what we want than we do....   Undecided
  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #26 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 6:41pm
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Strakeln wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 3:35pm:
That's something most games don't have - the excitement over loot.


What gets me is DR, I'm yet to come across another game where different weapons (beyond melee/ranged) are better for different situations.

Nothing that I actually care about in mmo's has progressed at all in the last decade.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #27 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:08pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 6:41pm:
What gets me is DR, I'm yet to come across another game where different weapons (beyond melee/ranged) are better for different situations.

Nothing that I actually care about in mmo's has progressed at all in the last decade.


Yes, DR is an interesting concept.
Back when it was relevant, it actually meant you had to have the right tool for the job or you reasonably ineffective.
Getting the balance right us tough though as you don't want to make people without the right tools useless, but you want people who are equipped to gave an advantage.

The problem now is the damage spread makes DR impossible.
I remember when they raised the DR on the hound to 999 and some Barbs were still getting through.
There are probably numerous builds now that can largely ignore DR999 which is silly balancing.

If they want to fix DDO's combat, they would need to greatly reduce the stacking multipliers to damage and get damage per hit back into a reasonable range.  Of course, they would forget yo recalibrate Mob and boss HP.....
Undecided
They might also want to address mob CR at the same time.


  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #28 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:19pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 6:41pm:
What gets me is DR, I'm yet to come across another game where different weapons (beyond melee/ranged) are better for different situations.

Yep, definitely something I liked about DDO. Clickies, wands, and frequent-use potions as well. There was so much skill involved in DDO - position while fighting, DR, bringing the right weapon/clickie/potion for the job (remember how devastating getting feared by a mummy once was? Do you remember people walking around with curses for days, or poison potentially being a death sentence? Being prepared was just as important as fighting well.

Weapons in other games are just stats. Preparation means bringing a couple of medshots and maybe one clickie. Position while fighting is typically meaningless.

Munkenmo wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 6:41pm:
Nothing that I actually care about in mmo's has progressed at all in the last decade.

Yep. It's sad. I've been out of DDO for five years. I'm a customer ripe for the plucking but I can't find anything to captivate my interest. I want what DDO once was, but even DDO cannot be that again.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #29 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:39pm
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Strakeln wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:19pm:
Yep, definitely something I liked about DDO. Clickies, wands, and frequent-use potions as well. There was so much skill involved in DDO - position while fighting, DR, bringing the right weapon/clickie/potion for the job (remember how devastating getting feared by a mummy once was? Do you remember people walking around with curses for days, or poison potentially being a death sentence? Being prepared was just as important as fighting well.

Weapons in other games are just stats. Preparation means bringing a couple of medshots and maybe one clickie. Position while fighting is typically meaningless.

Yep. It's sad. I've been out of DDO for five years. I'm a customer ripe for the plucking but I can't find anything to captivate my interest. I want what DDO once was, but even DDO cannot be that again.



Well said.

Did you try out Wildstar?
Did you like it?

I tried it and could not get into it - even after buying the premium starting package - could not make myself play it long enough to have a chance to like it.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #30 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:53pm
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DropBear wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 6:14pm:
You can only attribute that to a fundamental misunderstanding of their game and what their customers want.
The chance at rare combos of loot actually inspired people to run and supported the AH/trade economy.
So it got feather'd - why has it never been undone?
Because they still don't understand.
They're probably afraid that their piss-poor attempts at named items will be overshadowed by randgen loot.
We need to understand that this dev team is professionally trained and know more about what we want than we do....

They can't just undo it, because at the same time they've also had power creep. The powerful random loot is an attempt to mitigate the damage power creep does.

If you have very powerful named/grind out loot and it's miles ahead of random lootgen, then newer players can't group with well geared players, the new players feel isolated and they quit. They can't get the good loot without joining an experienced group, and they can't make it in an experienced group with the crap gear they have. Catch 22. Sort of like what we have now, only even worse.

They don't really play the game, so they can't tell what's the right level of power, and it doesn't look sexy on a resume anyway, so they aren't touching it.

Unfortunately, their tactic of making newer more powerful named/grind loot is exactly the wrong solution, it drives the powercreep wedge even further between the excellent and the average players, effectively driving out new blood.
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #31 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 8:08pm
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Mr wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:39pm:
Well said.

Did you try out Wildstar?
Did you like it?

I tried it and could not get into it - even after buying the premium starting package - could not make myself play it long enough to have a chance to like it.

I tried Wildstar, I liked it at first but it quickly sunk into the same pattern most MMOs fall into nowadays. I did the exact same thing every single fight. ZzZzZzZzZzZz. Also, wtf... this is like the third MMO in a row where I build a healer but have to DPS my way to cap. Is it so hard to understand that I want to play a fucking healer?

I wanted to make it to end game as I hear the raids are where it's at, but the attunement process is almost impossible without a guild.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #32 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 8:16pm
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I dont really know where it all started to go down.
When they became dogs of WB is my best bet.

They have so many good mechanics in ddo, its really sad to look how it all falls apart due to casuals/bad loot managment and unneeded power creep.
I still cant seem to get it into my brain that we have selfhealing barbarians nowadays that are one of best selfhealers...
IF i told that to friends that quit during motu times i bet a part of them would die
  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #33 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 8:41pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 6:41pm:
I'm yet to come across another game where different weapons (beyond melee/ranged) were better for different situations.

Until TF. After TF, only a handful of very specific weapons are better, in very specific situations. Some of those situations don't last long enough to bother switching out.


DropBear wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:08pm:
The problem now is the damage spread makes DR impossible.

This too. Good point.


Strakeln wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:19pm:
There was so much skill involved in DDO - position while fighting, DR, bringing the right weapon/clickie/potion for the job (remember how devastating getting feared by a mummy once was? Do you remember people walking around with curses for days, or poison potentially being a death sentence? Being prepared was just as important as fighting well.

See? Strake has the correct verb tense. was that so hard?


Meursault wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 7:53pm:
Unfortunately, their tactic of making newer more powerful named/grind loot is exactly the wrong solution, it drives the powercreep wedge even further between the excellent and the average players, effectively driving out new blood.

Rangen loot is in a terrible state. I can't think of anything above ML 20 worth having. Even if they bothered to update winter games glaciation to 150, it still wouldn't make rangen worthwhile (and not just because you can put it on a cosmetic hat).

The Winter Icy is the one Feather'd feature that makes sense. It encourages TR twinking.
« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2015 at 8:42pm by Revaulting »  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #34 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 9:01pm
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Revaulting wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 8:41pm:
Until TF. After TF, only a handful of very specific weapons are better, in very specific situations. Some of those situations don't last long enough to bother switching out.


My verb tense was accurate. I don't want to come across another game where DR was relevant. I want to come across another game where DR is relevant.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #35 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 9:10pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 9:01pm:
My verb tense was accurate. I don't want to come across another game where DR was relevant. I want to come across another game where DR is relevant.

Hah! You got me. That would be much better.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #36 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 9:26pm
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Revaulting wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 8:41pm:
Rangen loot is in a terrible state. I can't think of anything above ML 20 worth having. Even if they bothered to update winter games glaciation to 150, it still wouldn't make rangen worthwhile (and not just because you can put it on a cosmetic hat).


I thought the problem was that lootgen was better than most named now, is it just that most named is worse than pre-feather? Forgive my ignorance, I've never had, and now never intend to have, a character above 20 so I honestly don't know, I'm not being a jerk, I just thought I remembered people saying there was no point in grinding because better stuff dropped.
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #37 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 9:42pm
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Meursault wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 9:26pm:
I thought the problem was that lootgen was better than most named now, is it just that most named is worse than pre-feather? Forgive my ignorance, I've never had, and now never intend to have, a character above 20 so I honestly don't know, I'm not being a jerk, I just thought I remembered people saying there was no point in grinding because better stuff dropped.

TF gear invalidates all non-TF gear. Exceptions exist, but that's the simple way to put it. The "better stuff dropped" era is long over. I think it's arguable that there was a time it was true. It's more likely that they were talking about a specific pack, however, and "better stuff drops" was a damning judgment. Like saying, "Bambibeer is better at being coherent."

Voluntarily limiting yourself to 20 is an excellent way to avoid much that is shitty about DDO. I was too curious to try it. You are playing a more enjoyable game.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #38 - Jun 21st, 2015 at 10:07pm
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Revaulting wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 9:42pm:
TF gear invalidates all non-TF gear. Exceptions exist, but that's the simple way to put it. The "better stuff dropped" era is long over. I think it's arguable that there was a time it was true. It's more likely that they were talking about a specific pack, however, and "better stuff drops" was a damning judgment. Like saying, "Bambibeer is better at being coherent."

Voluntarily limiting yourself to 20 is an excellent way to avoid much that is shitty about DDO. I was too curious to try it. You are playing a more enjoyable game.

Ah, thanks for the clarification, it's even funnier getting it weeks or months later  Grin

Yeah, I actually like the 12-14 level stuff best. "Kill more minotaurs" never gets old, and I love Sands and Gianthold. Orchard is a mixed bag, I love the explorer area but the quests are too slow to get to and some of the mechanics are really annoying (like killing the 2 brothers at once in Perdition - seriously, what a pain).

And in addition to being quests I like, they also don't muck around with new systems as much in the Heroic levels, so I don't have as many things changing, and they are still easy enough that if things do change and I don't re-learn the new crap I can still get through. I played for 2 months without any enhancements set because I didn't want to take the time to figure out the new crap, and I did fine.

It's not great news for Turdbin, because it means I don't need to buy Iconics, or Shadowfell, or any adventure packs over 20, but I have no sympathy, they made their bed and now they can lie in it.
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #39 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 3:23am
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Revaulting wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 9:42pm:
TF gear invalidates all non-TF gear. Exceptions exist, but that's the simple way to put it. The "better stuff dropped" era is long over. I think it's arguable that there was a time it was true. It's more likely that they were talking about a specific pack, however, and "better stuff drops" was a damning judgment. Like saying, "Bambibeer is better at being coherent."

Voluntarily limiting yourself to 20 is an excellent way to avoid much that is shitty about DDO. I was too curious to try it. You are playing a more enjoyable game.


Right before the ghostbane era, random gen stuff was better in many cases than named loot - there are two instances in my memory. One was when they introduced all those named random loot (I think that one also had stuff like lacerating of bleeding) and the other was just before ghostbane, whenever "deadly" and so on were introduced. The second one was gear, but the first one was weapons - I still use a lvl 4 repeater that has like 3 different types of bleed on it and pulled a sonic one that rivals greensteel.  The best one I ever saw was a cacaphonic smiting repeater that someone linked - that was cool.

So, yeah, those very rare but bizarre and awesome random loot was fun. As everyone here agrees, all random loot-only chests are trash.
  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #40 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 3:29am
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Meursault wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 10:07pm:
Ah, thanks for the clarification, it's even funnier getting it weeks or months later  Grin

Yeah, I actually like the 12-14 level stuff best. "Kill more minotaurs" never gets old, and I love Sands and Gianthold. Orchard is a mixed bag, I love the explorer area but the quests are too slow to get to and some of the mechanics are really annoying (like killing the 2 brothers at once in Perdition - seriously, what a pain).

And in addition to being quests I like, they also don't muck around with new systems as much in the Heroic levels, so I don't have as many things changing, and they are still easy enough that if things do change and I don't re-learn the new crap I can still get through. I played for 2 months without any enhancements set because I didn't want to take the time to figure out the new crap, and I did fine.

It's not great news for Turdbin, because it means I don't need to buy Iconics, or Shadowfell, or any adventure packs over 20, but I have no sympathy, they made their bed and now they can lie in it.


For a counter position, I kinda like epic stuff. The underdark is a great wilderness setting - totally underused, but very beautiful (not the Drow city, though that's ok too). Although I like most of the epic quests, they are kind of linear and rely on poor mechanics like "you must kill all these mobs or the door won't open." Whoever came up with that should be beaten. It must be too hard to develop choice into your quests if you're retarded. So, can't really blame them since the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission forced WB to have one company staffed by mentally handicapped people.
  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #41 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 4:27am
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Hiding wrote on Jun 22nd, 2015 at 3:29am:
The underdark is a great wilderness setting


You've gotta be shitting me  Grin
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #42 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 5:49am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Jun 22nd, 2015 at 4:27am:
You've gotta be shitting me  Grin


It's neat to look at. That's what I think they did well.

Frustrating for what it ends up being, which is only a blockade to the rest of motu.
  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #43 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 6:31am
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Hiding wrote on Jun 22nd, 2015 at 5:49am:
It's neat to look at. That's what I think they did well.

Frustrating for what it ends up being, which is only a blockade to the rest of motu.


Thank God we have the King's Forest.
It's a walk of shame nonetheless but at least it's sunny outside.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #44 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 8:04am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Jun 22nd, 2015 at 6:31am:
It's a walk of shame nonetheless but at least it's sunny outside.


Yes.
  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #45 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 12:23pm
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Meursault wrote on Jun 21st, 2015 at 10:07pm:
Orchard is a mixed bag, I love the explorer area but the quests are too slow to get to and some of the mechanics are really annoying (like killing the 2 brothers at once in Perdition - seriously, what a pain).




Stand near the spawn point (the other brother spawns almost directly below you), then use several AOEs or other loud noise producing effects. I usually just use icestorm. The other brother will try and come up the tunnel and hit you. This typically works most of the time. So when you have the first brother prepped, the other brother should be there to beat on.

It is like magic, and it has been this way for years.
  

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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #46 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 12:45pm
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Along with inventory tetris, I wish they did something about the inventory jumbling mess after swapping gear/weapons and streamlining selling yer junk loot.

The "graphics" are dated, but the style is good (tilting to realism rather than cartoony, ddo half-elves are derp though).  Honestly, new whizbang graphics don't impress me much, but I'm kind of an old fogy.  I'd rather be able to equip and see all gear, rather than just limited to helmet/armor/weapon/goggles.
  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #47 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 1:36pm
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I find the graphics much better if you turn all the post-processing and bloom shit off and accept it for the artifact of its time that it is. I like it sharp and very bluntly far from the uncanny valley.
  
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Re: DDO Is Great in spite of 6 years of Turbine
Reply #48 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 1:40pm
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That's great, thank you  Smiley
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Reply #49 - Jun 22nd, 2015 at 1:43pm
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Epoch wrote on Jun 22nd, 2015 at 12:23pm:
Stand near the spawn point (the other brother spawns almost directly below you), then use several AOEs or other loud noise producing effects. I usually just use icestorm. The other brother will try and come up the tunnel and hit you. This typically works most of the time. So when you have the first brother prepped, the other brother should be there to beat on.

It is like magic, and it has been this way for years.

This was the post I meant to reply to, but my iPad is spastic today  Sad and no edit, so I have to make a new post  Angry
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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