harharharhar wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 10:29pm:


You either run with garbage warlocks (which may be the case, since there are a lot of them), or are just talking out of your ass.

Rubbinns wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 10:39pm:

I just did it in Fury in about 20, first try. I think I could get it down to 15, I didnt use all my adrenalines. That was without Slayer Arrow, with slayer, easily. I also have Manyshot which I could use with a Bow but didnt. SO you see, red named DPS is quite good on my 11/63. Its basically a monkcher for red names (but no slayer arrow) but far better trash clearing the other 90% of the time you aren't fighting red names. Ideal, as far as I am concerned.

Rubbinns wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 10:39pm:


Ill get back to you when I have the patience to run out there this life.

harharharhar wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 11:34pm:

That puts you at around pure twf pally in LD. A 18/1/1 barb in DC does it 12 seconds, maybe less. Manshot/slayer/fury monkcher is around 3. Interested in seeing your slayershot times. If anyone is playing a helf or 6rgr mech they can compare their slayer times and non-slayer times to your thrower times in both categories.

Ranks is anywhere from under 10 minutes to under 8. If youre in this category then your build and skills are solid. And would back up your claims.

Quote:



wrong. I told him why it was good.

nekobyte said throwers are beast.

then i agreed.

You have reading problems?

Hiding wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 2:23am:


I vote 90 minutes 

Dude, you are taking screenshots of kill count in a pug ? lol.
What does that prove ? Cleric gets 200 kills in EE Deathwyrm, okay wizard can get 70 kills in EE Peaks. Those are zero dps classes.

Bruntsmash is stupid as a test. Noone runs with those twists permanently. Too few hp - luck based.
That Citw one ( kill necro, attack mistress, kill bebilith, kill mistress ) is not a bad idea.
Maybe Break in Ice too - pretty straightforward.

I play on 8 year old potato ( 2 gb ram, core 2 duo ) and can Bandicam - shitty quality obviously.

Cool to read about builds and such, but this repeated "bestamest player on Khyber" and "outkill everybody on the server" rhetoric is just weird.

harharharhar wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 10:08pm:


Correct.  That is the idea.

Breaking the Ranks is good for quest wide DPS.  This has been stated previously.

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way to misuse a stat, statmaster.

Once again, I'll remind you my initial response to this thread was about mechanics, and only every talked about throwers in response to another persons post.

Go ahead and keep trying to derail the thread, be it about throwers or mechanics, with personal attacks against me.

Thats a much bigger derail than talking about throwers vs mechanics.

Dick.

I used to think that way but now I start from a position of assuming they don't follow a logical path. They've done enough odd-looking things that destroyed player effort and builds for me to assume that, I think.

But fair point on it being a good excuse if you're full of shit.

Now isn't the thing with Shuriken Chuckers all about Mortal Fear, eg. fast attack rate, extra missiles etc etc?

They seem to be the build that gets the most bang for the buck from the ridiculously OP Mortal Fear, hence why they can rape EE mobs and orange names but DPS is a considerable drop against the Reds.

Now as for Mechanics, these guys can actually have pretty decent damage output due to the power of Mechanic Enhancements, sure they might still be behind the best chucker builds (for mob dps) but it would seem they are definitely not as reliant on MF.

Hey could be wrong, but to me a Mechanic now looks like a very solid ranged option, especially for those without the mats (and yes there are people out there without the mats) to complete a Tier III TF.

Rubbinns wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 3:26pm:


all of the accommodations you had to make for your time are exactly why these tests are completely stupid and meaningless.

For one thing, a solo speed record, like a solo red named Cabal record, only says how you perform under very experimental, highly controlled specific circumstances.

Notice how I've NEVER bragged that I can speed solo Breaking the Ranks or the Cabal faster than other people who do those tests?

It's because I don't. I don't run those tests. I don't change my enhancements and twists and ED's and gear and drink all of my special pots just to beat a speed record that has nothing to do with crushing a quest with some friends or pugs as fast as I can when I play DDO for real, not for internet ePeen cred.

I just don't get it. The best test of a build in my mind is in the wild, in groups, under varying circumstances, with an overall judgement of "does playing this person make content easier or harder? Faster or slower? Am I learning how to do things better in this game playing with them?"

These are the true tests of how well a build is built, as far as I am concerned. I literally don't give a shit about your solo speed records. I never built my throwers to beatr or exceed someones elses solo speed record. Since I don't play DDO for solo speed records EVER (it doesn't get me loot, it isn't a better way to level or TR, and isn't particularly fun for me), why the fuck would I concern myself with optimizing a build for it?

For the Red Named cabal test, I could easily change my EWD to Fury, redo my Enhancements to Take Slayer Arrows, and just use Manyshot with Slayer and Sniper Shot and boosts and pots and kill him in 5 Seconds. Why wouldn't I be able to? That's all a Monkcher does.

I'm pretty sure I could beat your time in Ranks, because this build absolutely curb-stomps trash which is most of that quest. Would probably have to juggle some things to increase survivability. Take lvl 12 core in acrobat for knockdown immunity.

So what? I don't play that way, I dont usually take those enhancements and twists, and it's no longer my build, it's my build heavily modified for speed record.

The problem we keep co,ing around to is that you think I'm full of shit because I do not give a rats ass about ePeen or proving my in game experience to you. Instead I offer it up objectively as pretty good damage model (see spreadsheet damage calcs I have previously shared) and relate to you my experiences anecdotally.

You all interpret that as being dishonest or braggy or something.

It's really just that I don't agree with what you think is important in a build, or how to prove that to you. Let that sink in. I think you're wrong to base build judgements on subjective and meaningless speed tests.

Read that again.

harharharhar wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 5:00pm:

I dont think it's wrong at all. I could solo ranks with 5 other players standing at the gate. Do I make it easier for them? Sure. But by what measure? Im positive you could beat my time if you tried. But I dont think you have ever tried. Not that I have practiced many times. This was my actual first time trying to. I did it to show that while I may be good, Im not as good as the best. If you think you are, then go and set the record.

There are tons of quests times to measure up against. For me, I can tell how much better someone is just by watching a video of them. I guessed I would take over 12 mins without joy and estimate that with joy and everything going perfectly it would take me around 10 at my best time. That is a quantitative measure. Something tangible with the least amount of variables.