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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics? (Read 68467 times)
Rubbinns
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #75 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 5:35pm
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Halfmaniac wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 5:30pm:
Darn, beat me by 4min on my Acrobat.
1st attempt, 1st toon though.

Impressive for rogue acrobat(no recon). I think haek has a 15min on his Zeus build, but that was few updates ago before many changes(and he's also just plain better than me).
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #76 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:06pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 5:15pm:
I dont think it's wrong at all. I could solo ranks with 5 other players standing at the gate. Do I make it easier for them? Sure. But by what measure? Im positive you could beat my time if you tried. But I dont think you have ever tried. Not that I have practiced many times. This was my actual first time trying to. I did it to show that while I may be good, Im not as good as the best. If you think you are, then go and set the record.

There are tons of quests times to measure up against. For me, I can tell how much better someone is just by watching a video of them. I guessed I would take over 12 mins without joy and estimate that with joy and everything going perfectly it would take me around 10 at my best time. That is a quantitative measure. Something tangible with the least amount of variables.


I used duo Titan with a buddy and solo Demon Queen back when the cap was 14 (Between Sands and OG GH). I didn't take videos or post screenshots then either. 8-12 Minutes of me running in backwards circles drinking Cure Pots, Lesser Resto Pots, Haste Pots, and Plinking away on my lvl 14 Ranger trying not to die. It's because I wasn't doing it to be the best or showoff, I did it because there were 2 raid items per run (with warding glyphs), and it was more efficient than running with 12 people and rolling for loot. And I wanted a fucking Chaos Blade and a Mari Chain, BAD.

I make my throwers for the same reason today: they are some of the most well-rounded, well-tuned, and pleasurable ways to play DDO I've ever experienced in 9 years of DDO altoholism and leet-bro play. I don't say this to be a hero or get your adoration, I say this because I KNOW it's true, and I hope you have the pleasure of seeing for yourself how much better they are than almost anything else you can play in DDO. That's why I post my builds, and my calculations to justify my choices. When I say better it's in terms of fun, speed, survivability, adaptability and play-style. If you like ranged combat, you should have a heavy rogue splash thrower build at end game. If you don't have one, you don't understand what I'm saying. My speed record in breaking the ranks wont help you understand that very well. A stream or recorded video of my play? That would help. But I've already told I can't seem to get that to work. If anyone has Mac specific suggestions, I'm all ears.

Every single quest and raid I step into on my Throwers are speed runs. And my sample size is the last 2.5 years of playing throwers. Over thousands of quests I have tuned, adjusted, and experimented to make the absolute best possible thrower build I can come up with. I have alts, with PL's and good gear but I've slowly abandoned them to the point of them basically being mules now. I just play my main. I've done Shiradi builds, Bards, Trees, whatever in the past. But the last year and half has been basically 100% focused on my Thrower. When I rolled my main (who then a bank alt) 2.5 years ago into my first thrower build (a pure 20 Monk Shuricannon), I didn't have a single PL. He is now a triple Epic Completionist and a Heroic Completionist with 3 PL's in about half of the heroic lives that aren't meaningless to throwing.

Instead of poo pooing and giving me a bunch of shit for not running some subjective speed test, why don't you just roll and cap one (if you like ranged combat) and see for yourself? If you flat out suck at ranged combat, newsflash: you won't like my thrower builds. When I say suck, I mean bad at ALWAYS moving and still attacking, buffing, scrolling, potting, whatever, and sucking at moving enemies and yourself to be always hitting as many mobs as possible with every throw animation. And maximizing active attacks like Whislte, Pin, Legshot, and Sniper Shot. If you like doing that, you WILL like my builds at 28. Unlike a Monkcher who is largely useless between Slayer shots and semi useless between Manyshots, my thrower builds (and to a slightly lesser extent Pure Monk throwers b/c of 10k) are ALWAYS ON. It's more like a Shiradi caster and less like a Monkcher.

So far, every single person I personally have communicated with who has rolled any of my builds have been really happy at end game. And most recently, with the 13Rog and 11Rog builds, they have been largely ecstatic. And it's because they're the best builds I have ever played, personally. And when people roll them, level them, gear them, and then play them, they see if for themselves. That's the test I'm interested in passing.

« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:08pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #77 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:11pm
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Halfmaniac wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 5:30pm:
Darn, beat me by 4min on my Acrobat.
1st attempt, 1st toon though.

With the new gear and epl i have gotten the past weeks, gonna have to try again.


Why is there a 30 Mob kill difference between you and Rubbins?
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #78 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:13pm
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:06pm:
My speed record in breaking the ranks wont help you understand that very well.

It's a better start than any words you could post. It isnt MY test. it's what the competitive community at large has set as a benchmark. I guess all those guys speed running and breaking records are doing it wrong according to your calculations?
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #79 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:15pm
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:11pm:
Why is there a 30 Mob kill difference between you and Rubbins?

she probably killed the gnoll boss during the first wave. I let him linger until around end. I assume this lets him call more gnolls during the gnoll wave. Or I took longer on giant boss. Or even maybe the end boss took longer. Might be that any of them call more backup the longer they live.
« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:17pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #80 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:25pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:15pm:
she probably killed the gnoll boss during the first wave. I let him linger until around end. I assume this lets him call more gnolls during the gnoll wave. Or I took longer on giant boss. Or even maybe the end boss took longer. Might be that any of them call more backup the longer they live.


these seem like important things to know when trying to stomp a speed record.
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #81 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:32pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:13pm:
It's a better start than any words you could post. It isnt MY test. it's what the competitive community at large has set as a benchmark. I guess all those guys speed running and breaking records are doing it wrong according to your calculations?


No, not wrong. Its just not the calculus I use to make builds, so it seems like a strange way to measure them.

More importantly, and you seem to be missing this point:

Speed records are NOT the measure of a build. They are the measure of:

Build modified by (Gear + PL's +ePLs + Player Competency + Player Knowledge of Speed Record quest/objective)

You asking me for a speed test is NOT asking me for an estimation or an approximation of my BUILD. You're asking for an estimation or an approximation of me playing my build. Let's just be clear. This is the same problem the world has with things like Standardized tests, when they test someone who is not suited to a standardized test. The test makes them look dumb, but they could still actually be a genius at not standardized test related matters.

The part I refuse to subject myself to is DDO Vault trollery about MYSELF in the context of a discussion about a BUILD. My build is no worse or better if it can beat your time in Breaking the Ranks.

So, do you want to know about my build? Or me?
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #82 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:40pm
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:32pm:
No, not wrong. Its just not the calculus I use to make builds, so it seems like a strange way to measure them.

More importantly, and you seem to be missing this point:

Speed records are NOT the measure of a build. They are the measure of:

Build modified by (Gear + PL's +ePLs + Player Competency + Player Knowledge of Speed Record quest/objective)

You asking me for a speed test is NOT asking me for an estimation or an approximation of my BUILD. You're asking for an estimation or an approximation of me playing my build. Let's just be clear. This is the same problem the world has with things like Standardized tests, when they test someone who is not suited to a standardized test. The test makes them look dumb, but they could still actually be a genius at not standardized test related matters.

The part I refuse to subject myself to is DDO Vault trollery about MYSELF in the context of a discussion about a BUILD. My build is no worse or better if it can beat your time in Breaking the Ranks.

So, do you want to know about my build? Or me? 

well, I was running one of yours meteor shower shuritossers. That was actually pretty fine experience.
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #83 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:23pm
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:32pm:
No, not wrong. Its just not the calculus I use to make builds, so it seems like a strange way to measure them.

More importantly, and you seem to be missing this point:

Speed records are NOT the measure of a build. They are the measure of:

Build modified by (Gear + PL's +ePLs + Player Competency + Player Knowledge of Speed Record quest/objective)

You asking me for a speed test is NOT asking me for an estimation or an approximation of my BUILD. You're asking for an estimation or an approximation of me playing my build. Let's just be clear. This is the same problem the world has with things like Standardized tests, when they test someone who is not suited to a standardized test. The test makes them look dumb, but they could still actually be a genius at not standardized test related matters.

The part I refuse to subject myself to is DDO Vault trollery about MYSELF in the context of a discussion about a BUILD. My build is no worse or better if it can beat your time in Breaking the Ranks.

So, do you want to know about my build? Or me? 


Reroll, n00b.

Now that our Vault trollery is out of the way, would you mind subjecting yourself to our standardized testing?  Cheesy
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #84 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:34pm
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 11:18pm:
3rd option: you're wrong


I really don't care about any of the 'speed run' discussion here or talk of what builds people think are good, however I'm not going to let it slide that you think your thrower build is better then a well build warlock.

Again, you are running with garbage warlocks. Over an extended duration single target fight, or a mass enemy crowd burn, a good warlock will beat your build, hands down.
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #85 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:35pm
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Brodhi wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:34pm:
I really don't care about any of the 'speed run' discussion here or talk of what builds people think are good, however I'm not going to let it slide that you think your thrower build is better then a well build warlock.

Again, you are running with garbage warlocks. Over an extended duration single target fight, or a mass enemy crowd burn, a good warlock will beat your build, hands down.


In my experience, no Warlocks have taken aggro from me in long extended Boss fights.

That suggests I'm probably winning the DPS race.
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #86 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:41pm
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:32pm:
build? Or me?

both. And the way most competitive players measure it today are through speed records. You made the claim about being one of the best. I pointed out to you where the big boy sandbox is and what you need to do to get in there. You refuse to go over there and put on your big boy pants.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #87 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:50pm
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:35pm:
In my experience, no Warlocks have taken aggro from me in long extended Boss fights.

That suggests I'm probably winning the DPS race.



Aggro and DPS are two different things. Holy fucking shit, I did not believe I would ever have to tell anyone that.

There are so many ways to lower aggro and raise it. I have grouped with 9 yr old kids that know the difference.
  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #88 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 10:08pm
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Epoch wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:50pm:
Aggro and DPS are two different things. Holy fucking shit, I did not believe I would ever have to tell anyone that.

There are so many ways to lower aggro and raise it. I have grouped with 9 yr old kids that know the difference.



Smiley

For instance, as a vault poster Dump-stat gets a lot of Aggro, but he does very little DPS...... Wink
« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2015 at 10:11pm by RemRemi »  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #89 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:20pm
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Literally the first time I've ever tried to solo this.

in LD. This is a really shit quest to solo for this build for the following reasons:

1. IPS AoE damage is severely limited due to terrain/topography and obstructions (tents, bell, traps). I'd like to see a time trial of other builds with concentric AoE (aka non-bow/thrown/xbow) in a quest with long hallways, like say EE Haunted Halls. This quest is basically made for concentric AoE and pretty horrible for IPS builds.
2. Solo'ing on any build that relies heavily on SA damage is more difficult than other types of damage.
3. This wasn't that hard, I might try again for a better time with more optimized feats/twists/gear layout

http://postimg.org/image/ixyzs6rrn/
« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:26pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #90 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:25pm
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RemRemi wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 10:08pm:
Smiley

For instance, as a vault poster Dump-stat gets a lot of Aggro, but he does very little DPS...... Wink



Where's your EE solo attempts?
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #91 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:28pm
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:20pm:
Literally the first time I've ever tried to solo this.

in LD. This is a really shit quest to solo for this build for the following reasons:

1. IPS AoE damage is severely limited due to terrain/topography and obstructions (tents, bell, traps). I'd like to see a time trial of other builds with concentric AoE (aka non-bow/thrown/xbow) in a quest with long hallways, like say EE Haunted Halls. This quest is basically made for concentric AoE and pretty horrible for IPS builds.
2. Solo'ing on any build that relies heavily on SA damage is more difficult than other types of damage.
3. This wasn't that hard, I might try again for a better time with more optimized feats/twists/gear layout

[url=[url]http://postimg.org/image/ixyzs6rrn/][url]http://postimg.org/image/ixyzs6rrn/[/url][/url]

Was that so hard, man? Was like pulling teeth from you lol. A mech player flashed his screenshot here a while back and he had a time of 9 minutes and some seconds. IPS+Sneak Attack in LD. Granted he is very skilled, but it shows how well a skilled player using well built mechs can do in quests.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #92 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:28pm
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Epoch wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 8:50pm:
Aggro and DPS are two different things. Holy fucking shit, I did not believe I would ever have to tell anyone that.

There are so many ways to lower aggro and raise it. I have grouped with 9 yr old kids that know the difference.


Seems like maybe you don't understand some basic game mechanics.

I'll just direct you to this: http://ddowiki.com/page/Hate

If you can keep aggro wearing Improved Deception and without any extra hate generating gear (and Sniper Shot) every 6 Seconds. You're doing fine.
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #93 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:30pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:28pm:
Was that so hard, man? Was like pulling teeth from you lol. A mech player flashed his screenshot here a while back and he had a time of 9 minutes and some seconds. IPS+Sneak Attack in LD. Granted he is very skilled, but it shows how well a skilled player using well built mechs can do in quests.


Yes, Mechs rely less on Sneak, because they get better crit range and multipliers than Shurikens. Shurikens derive far more damage proportionally from SA damage, per missile. Of course, some of this depends on Build (pally mech or rogue mech) and whether or not they use GXbow, which gets extra SA dice.

Also, I killed all 3 Red Named, I suppose it could have been a bit faster if I hadn't.

I also forgot to use Manyshot the whole time.
« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2015 at 11:35pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #94 - Aug 7th, 2015 at 1:16am
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harharharhar wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 7:25pm:
these seem like important things to know when trying to stomp a speed record.

I looked at Yeela's and Goldy's runs again. This time watching for knockdown saves. I dont know how knockdown even works but I was suspicious after today's runs. Yeela saved with a +14(9 from dex mod. The other 5 comes in from GH+haste I assume). My dex is +8, GH 4, good luck 2, no haste = 14. Goldy saved on balance roll of +35(my balance is 47). They never got knocked down once. Fuck if I know why, but 8 total knockdowns cant all be 1's.

First I noticed that I had been getting knocked down by Mason's(FoT silent giant) boulder toss past few weeks. On my pally. With a 60 str in EH runs. Often. I wrote it off to just random 1's. A lot of 1's, anyway.

After today's attempts I think knockdown dc is broken. In Ranks, where I had died 1st try to knockdowns from boulder tosses and giant stomps(around 6 knockdowns). And my second run also resulted in 2 knockdowns. Mitigated boulder toss line of sight better second time, using the gong and positioning as concealment and kiting giants through BB more(instead of staying in and trying to Sonic Blast and Energy Burst).

People on MoBos have reported that trip dc is broken for mobs and I think trip is linked with knockdown. I checked wiki but all I got was :
Quote:
Knockdown is a special attack of certain monsters, e.g. dogs and wolves (including the mechanical ones), similar to the trip maneuver, that renders opponents prone.


Another thing I noticed is my run has the most mob spawns I have seen between Yeela, Goldy, Zoda, Sith, Neko and your's. I thought it might be scaling based on class icon, but that wouldnt make sense because Sith and Yeela both had Fvs icons.
« Last Edit: Aug 7th, 2015 at 1:20am by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #95 - Aug 7th, 2015 at 2:49am
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Yobai wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 1:23pm:
I've missed the boat on mechanics.  probably b/c there aren't any threads here about them and we're so focused on important things like sockmaster's virtpupps.  but then I always cum last at the circle jerk anyway.   Undecided

what's the deal with mechanics?  all the references on the dumbo about how mechs are MOST AWESOME RANGED DPS IN GAME???

should I dust off my mech?  is it a new feature?  or just hot air?


29 sneak attack dice at level 12. That's all I'm going to say.
  

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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #96 - Aug 7th, 2015 at 3:01am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Aug 7th, 2015 at 2:49am:
29 sneak attack dice (that scale with ranged power) at level 12. That's all I'm going to say.


Yes.
  
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #97 - Aug 7th, 2015 at 7:21am
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RemRemi wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 10:08pm:
For instance, as a vault poster Dump-stat gets a lot of Aggro, but he does very little DPS...... Wink

LOL, Epoch had it over the net to an empty court but Remi comes in for the power spike anyway, what a game, folks, what a game!
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #98 - Aug 7th, 2015 at 7:42am
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too lazy to read all this, who has biggest pennis in the end?
  
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OldCoaly
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Why did you think this
time would be different?

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Location: WAAHH!!!Testing stuff is HARD!
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Re: Why Are Folks Shooting Their Wad Over Mechanics?
Reply #99 - Aug 7th, 2015 at 9:36am
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Gringo wrote on Aug 7th, 2015 at 7:42am:
who has biggest pennis in the end?


Phrasing!
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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