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Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:16pm
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I was to lazy to transfer the charts properly.


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467833-Update-29-Level-30-Overview#pos...

As you may know, we're planning to raise the level cap to level 30 with Update 29. Here's some initial details!

New Character Features Gained from Leveling Up to 30

Here's our current plan for what characters receive from gaining levels 29 and 30.

Feature      Level
+2 Fate Points      29
Tier 3 Epic Destiny Feat Slot (3 Destinies capped)      29
+3 Fate Points      30
+1 Twist of Fate Slot      30
"Normal" Feat Slot      30
Legendary Feat Slot      30

Notes:

    Number of Twist Slots: This is +1 compared to whatever you currently have. You might or might not have gotten an Epic Completionist slot yet. The 4th slot you have costs 4 Fate Points to unlock tier 1, the 5th slot costs 5 points to unlock, regardless of what order you gain your extra slots. If you drop below level 29/30 (Reincarnation), then you lose those Fate Points and slot until you level up again.
    Reincarnation Flagging: According to our tests, if you flag for Reincarnation before Update 29 (make it so Character Select shows the big REINCARNATE button), you will be able to reincarnate after Update 29 without any further changes. You won't have to gain additional XP or levels, etc.
    The Normal feat slot is similar to the slot you get at 27 - it can hold lower level feats that you can usually get (aka: not Epic Destiny feats).
    The Epic Destiny Feat slot can hold lower tier Epic Destiny feats that you qualify for, or new options only available here at level 29. Like other Epic Destiny Feat slots, this cannot hold other kinds of feats.
    The Legendary Feat slot can only be filled from a specific list of new feats.
    Epic Reincarnation and Iconic Reincarnation will require being level 30 after Update 29.




Epic XP Curve

We're changing the Epic XP curve! The average amount of XP required per level (on average) is staying exactly where it is, but the "curve" is now entirely flattened to be the same XP requirements for each Epic level.

    Total requirements for level 30: Neither we nor most players wanted to see level 30 requiring ~10 million XP. That just seemed like too much, especially in comparison to today. We're landing at 8,250,000, which is reasonable for two more levels after 6,600,000.
    Level 28 is the same: Under the old curve, you needed 6,600,000 XP for level 28, and that's still true. This also required an average of 825,000 XP per level (6,600,000 / 8), which is what we've flattened every level to require, including past level 28.
    Why flatten the XP curve?
        It makes sense for characters to spend similar amounts of play time at each level, rather than new levels coming slower and slower over time. For comparison, consider the old Heroic 3rd life XP requirements and levels 18-20. While that's a different case overall (from 1-20), we want to get away from that feeling that the last few levels are just so much harder.
        XP per epic quest doesn't increase much with increased level, which takes away from one reason to increase XP requirements over time.
        Unlike the normal "start" of an XP curve, there's no great reason for designers to rush characters through the early Epic levels. That's not where most of your abilities come from, either from a power perspective or "cool new things to use" perspective. By the time a character is epic they've got lots to do, and Epic Destinies are on a separate track. Given that, it's largely nicer to space the "dings" of gaining a level out more - yes, they come slower early on, but you never reach that large gap at high levels where it seems to take forever to get those final levels. (Players may remember the old Heroic 3rd life XP curve being somethign like that at level 18/19.)
        Based on quest and XP distribution, it makes sense for the lower levels to require as much XP as higher levels. Though we've relaxed a lot of "restrictions" on epic questing, many players do still play quests around their character level, and/or in increasing order.

    Existing Characters after the change: Similar to when we updated the Heroic XP requirements, existing characters would lose neither XP nor levels when this change goes live. For instance, if you have 800,000 XP the day before U29 launches, you'll be level 22 with 800,000 XP. After U29, you'll still be level 22 with 800,000 XP - you wont revert back to level 20, even though a new character reaching epic levels would only be level 20 with 800,000 XP. That character would need to reach 2,475,000 XP to reach level 23 (like any new character), and the XP bar won't begin filling up until you reach 1,650,000 XP (the new normal requirement for your current level).
    Bank Note: If you are "banking" an epic level before Update 29, you may want to take that level before the update goes live. Depending where you are on the curve this may get you to that level much sooner than otherwise.




Level      Old Requirement      New Requirement
20      0      0
21      300,000      825,000
22      750,000      1,650,000
23      1,350,000      2,475,000
24      2,100,000      3,300,000
25      3,000,000      4,125,000
26      4,050,000      4,950,000
27      5,250,000      5,775,000
28      6,600,000      6,600,000
29      8,100,000 (old curve if unchanged)      7,425,000
30      9,750,000 (old curve if unchanged)      8,250,000


We'll have some more details to share in the near future, including specifics on some feats, but please keep comments on those specifics to those threads.

Thanks for reading. If you have general thoughts on the structure of Feats with new levels, or Twists of Fate and Fate Points, or the XP curve/flat line, etc., let us know!
  

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Technomage
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #1 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:17pm
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Wow, 825,000 to reach 21?

The population of Butthurtia is about to explode.

Let the whining (and the crying) commence!
« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:18pm by Technomage »  

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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #2 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:22pm
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I guess they don't like Saga banking.
« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:22pm by DoRayEgon »  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #3 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:32pm
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damn beaten...
  

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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #4 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:33pm
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Okay quick question, when was the last time that Turbine didn't take the lazy path to mediocre town, instead of a elegant solution? 

Seems like years and years.
  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #5 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:40pm
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Technomage wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:17pm:
Wow, 825,000 to reach 21?

The population of Butthurtia is about to explode.

Let the whining (and the crying) commence!

That's like 6 runs of Von 3 or spies.
  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #6 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:49pm
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So, for us dirty casual players, we can get to next level in two days doing the daily rotation and some raid flaggers without much extra effort.  I can't complain too much about that.
  

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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #7 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 4:12pm
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Yeah I really don't see the problem, here. I actually welcome the change somewhat. Its not, like awesome, but I don't think its bad.

Honestly, what else were you expecting? I think we are looking at a possible best-case scenario.
  

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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 5:15pm
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Snu Snu wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:16pm:
+2 Fate Points      29
Tier 3 Epic Destiny Feat Slot (3 Destinies capped)      29
+3 Fate Points      30
+1 Twist of Fate Slot      30
"Normal" Feat Slot      30
Legendary Feat Slot      30


3 feats, 5 fate points and an extra twist slot. how is reaper going to challenge players with shit like that? "here's some balance changes. now take some unbalance changes" good work
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 5:51pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 5:15pm:
3 feats, 5 fate points and an extra twist slot. how is reaper going to challenge players with shit like that? "here's some balance changes. now take some unbalance changes" good work


Those 5 fate points really just buy you a level 1 twist in the extra twist slot though so either you're getting an extra level 1 twist or else you're boosting your existing twists, but not both. That's something but really not game-breaking.

As for the feats, I'll reserve judgment on the T3 ED feat and the Legendary feats until I see them but that's where my bigger worry about power creep would be. If it's just more numbers to keep up with bigger bags of hp's again, that's just more of the same. If instead we're getting feats that significantly alter balance that's another story altogether.
  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #10 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 5:58pm
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Its gonna be the first one: bigger numbers/bigger bags. The good news is, since TRing is still a healthy and active mechanic, we don't have to worry as much about power creep as other games. There's always TRing.
  

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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #11 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 6:03pm
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noamineo wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 5:58pm:
Its gonna be the first one: bigger numbers/bigger bags. The good news is, since TRing is still a healthy and active mechanic, we don't have to worry as much about power creep as other games. There's always TRing.


That's kind of what I figured. I see your 10% doubleshot feat and raise you a 15% doubleshot feat! Now you hit for moor numbers!
« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2015 at 6:04pm by Darkrok »  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #12 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 6:06pm
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Darkrok wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 5:51pm:
That's something but really not game-breaking

not by itself, no. combined with 3 more feats and you should be able to fit in everything you wanted. Between 5 twist slots and 4 epic feats and 3 ed feats. even if they keep all feats the same and give moderate legendary feats. that would still be more than needed for anything right now. The only way reaper would be a challenge is if every mob were a champ lich from GoP.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #13 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 8:07pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 6:06pm:
even if they keep all feats the same and give moderate legendary feats.

yeah, well that isn't happening. I mean, why even balance pass if the next update features feats that are redonk powerful.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #14 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 8:11pm
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Huge boost to dialed in players, and still nowhere near enough content for those end gamers.

Which is why they are probably trying to slow down the epic level rush to cap because so much of the 22-26 content is Facestomped by lev 28s currently.
  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #15 - Nov 17th, 2015 at 8:14pm
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Grand wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 8:11pm:
enough content for those end gamers.

just you wait. new crafting struggle is real. grind 85 normal epic shrouds for 1 item. then another crafting update coming. insane grind called
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #16 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 12:32am
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AtomicMew wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 3:40pm:
That's like 6 runs of Von 3 or spies. 

Or two wiz kings, two von3's, and two spies.
  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #17 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 1:38am
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Quote:
    Epic Reincarnation and Iconic Reincarnation will require being level 30 after Update 29.


Quote:
Total requirements for level 30: Neither we nor most players wanted to see level 30 requiring ~10 million XP. That just seemed like too much, especially in comparison to today. We're landing at 8,250,000, which is reasonable for two more levels after 6,600,000.


No, Varg, that isn't reasonable, given the statement about ER and IR requiring being level 30 now. Honestly, this is the part of the new update that bothers me most.

It's been just over two years since Epic Reincarnation has been released (Update 20) and the level cap has been at 28 for quite a long time now. Sure, those U20 update notes did say that the cap would be raised to 30 eventually, but what that effectively meant was "You guys better get in as many Epic Reincarnations now before we make it even grindier and more obnoxious to get those ERs." Not to mention that those update notes said nothing about any plans for changing the exp curve, let alone when they'd be raising the level cap. Just comes to show how myopic and haphazard Turbine has been.

What they did with True Reincarnation when they changed the heroic EXP curve made TRing easier by a small margin, while what they're doing here is making ERing harder by a significant margin. I don't think anyone's really going to be happy about this except for maybe the triple-epic-completionists who aren't affected by the change at all.

I'm certainly not happy about it; like I said, it's one thing to make a favorable change (i.e. making the heroic exp curve easier), but it's another to make a detrimental one which will make the game significantly more grind-based in the epic levels. And come on; does Turbine not see that the epic game isn't already a huge, boring grindfest? It seems obvious to me that they don't play their own game, what with all these idiotic changes they've made time and time again. The Epic Game already only has a fraction of the content that the Heroic Game does, and of that content, only about 15-20% of it gets run for exp. It's a stupidly worse grind than the heroic game, by a large magnitude. And you're telling me you're deciding to make the grind even worse... good fucking grief
  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #18 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 2:50am
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Wow so i can use my citw weapon at 2.4 mill xp.

( unless gm removes them Undecided )
  

Vaultaccount wrote on Aug 29th, 2016 at 7:06pm:
The most broken epic PL in the game is the ridiculous AC buff from martial PLs. But when you include all the inherent benefits from reincarnation, the thing is above the roof. The benefit from TR was supposed to be minimal, but now it is game breaking. start a new character and you will feel, you will get raped in heroics.

Personally I think lower heroics on new characters are harder than Legendary Elite content on a character with good gear and has all destinies farmed.


Arkat wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:14pm:
And someone in another thread called ME delusional recently!

Wow.

Have you EVER gone to Law School Feyn? Have you EVER been asked by a United States Senator who is now the Vice President of the United States to write a paper just for him on a particular topic of Constitutional Law for his use as a Senator? Have you ever been asked to help a very notable Harvard PhD turned Constitutional scholar with his very-well received book on Legal Philosophy and Constitutional Revolutions? Have you ever been offered a job as a Deputy Attorney General BEFORE you even graduated Law School?

No? Then STFU you fucking amateur.


Meat-Head wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 12:03am:
Thx. I was semi-waiting because windows 10 will be here soon. but, the crashing is making me want to punch old people.


IMARANGER wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 5:40pm:
Pretty sure that the fact that a service can be hacked doesn't make it the "community chest".
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #19 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 3:15am
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Bleh, longer to wait for OC. More XP. Guess I'm off the ETR habit. Don't feel like giving them $$ for hearts anyway with their behaviour so that's cool.
  
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #20 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 8:11am
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kum-gulp wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 3:15am:
Bleh, longer to wait for OC. More XP. Guess I'm off the ETR habit. Don't feel like giving them $$ for hearts anyway with their behaviour so that's cool.


travel back in time and dupe hearts?
  

Vaultaccount wrote on Aug 29th, 2016 at 7:06pm:
The most broken epic PL in the game is the ridiculous AC buff from martial PLs. But when you include all the inherent benefits from reincarnation, the thing is above the roof. The benefit from TR was supposed to be minimal, but now it is game breaking. start a new character and you will feel, you will get raped in heroics.

Personally I think lower heroics on new characters are harder than Legendary Elite content on a character with good gear and has all destinies farmed.


Arkat wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:14pm:
And someone in another thread called ME delusional recently!

Wow.

Have you EVER gone to Law School Feyn? Have you EVER been asked by a United States Senator who is now the Vice President of the United States to write a paper just for him on a particular topic of Constitutional Law for his use as a Senator? Have you ever been asked to help a very notable Harvard PhD turned Constitutional scholar with his very-well received book on Legal Philosophy and Constitutional Revolutions? Have you ever been offered a job as a Deputy Attorney General BEFORE you even graduated Law School?

No? Then STFU you fucking amateur.


Meat-Head wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 12:03am:
Thx. I was semi-waiting because windows 10 will be here soon. but, the crashing is making me want to punch old people.


IMARANGER wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 5:40pm:
Pretty sure that the fact that a service can be hacked doesn't make it the "community chest".
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #21 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 8:27am
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Darkrok wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 at 6:03pm:
That's kind of what I figured. I see your 10% doubleshot feat and raise you a 15% doubleshot feat! Now you hit for moor numbers!

After the crap they pulled with manyshot "too many arrows, boo hoo" they are adding more arrows? Turbine  Roll Eyes
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #22 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 8:54am
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Looks like the dumbass is back.
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

People who don't know how to fix their own mistakes cleanly
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #23 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 9:00am
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Poor tard having a lot of trouble for nothing.
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

People who don't know how to fix their own mistakes cleanly
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Re: Devs Lvl 30 Overview
Reply #24 - Nov 18th, 2015 at 9:05am
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Buddy
  

Dear players,

The D&D rules you were familiar with were too simple to understand, so we're continuing our move away from them to needlessly confusing subsystems that will make your play experience less fun and invalidate old builds and loot. We hope you have fun working out what the fuck MRR, PRR, MP, SP, RP, CL, MCL and all the other bullshit we made up whilst drunk means.

Love,

People who don't know how to fix their own mistakes cleanly
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