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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) New loot changes (Read 9221 times)
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #25 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 10:24am
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Looks interesting but I'll reserve judgment until I see examples when the design phase is settled.
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #26 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:02pm
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Crikey!

Quote:
Some Dude Quote:
So, if I'm understanding how this is going to work, the ML of the item will be determined by dungeon level, and the level of the bonus on the item will be scaled to that ML? So instead of:

Current way--If I have a Strength Item with a +6 bonus on it, the ML for that item is 13. If it's Strength +6 of Accuracy +1, the ML becomes 15.

New way I pull a ML 13 Strength of Accuracy item. It grants +6 Strength and +6 Accuracy.

Am I figuring that right? So it'll be a radical change from single-bonus items being the best, because they won't have a much lower ML than an item with 2 bonuses? That's an interesting change right there (and kinda cool, imo, no more crappy +1 this +3 that items that nobody wants). It makes every random drop item at least POTENTIALLY useful. I have a TON of questions tho:


No Worries Quote:
Yes, the bonuses are separate from each other and the minimum level is set by the level of the quest.
Also, there is a chance for a third effect as well.


Some Dude Quote:
Is the ML for a given bonus level going to be higher? So is +6 going to be (standard, no lucky boosties) like ML 17 on random enchant gear? If it's not, a LOT of heroic level named gear is going to suddenly get an ENORMOUS comparative downgrade because the value of a lot of them is just that they have multiple bonuses without the insane ML inflation the old system put on random gen loot.


No Worries Quote:
As mentioned in another reply +6 to stats I believe starts showing up at level 10 in the updated system.


Some Dude Quote:
Is there still going to be the enormous ML gap between +6 items (ML 13) and +7 (ML 20)? If this gets changed it's also going to be a big problem for a LOT of named gear. Granted, some of it (like the +8 wheloon heroic items) is basically so easy to acquire that who cares, but something like 95% of pre-MOTU epic loot is going to be so stupidly awful compared to random equivalent level gear it won't even be funny.


No Worries Quote:
the gap is not quite that big, we tried to make smoother scaling curves for the increasing of effects. I'm sure there will be plenty of discussion over these values and adjustments will be made.


Some Dude Quote:
Is actual named gear going (eventually) get adjusted to follow the new scaling rules? (I'm assuming this new system will make adjustments like this a ton easier than they are currently.)

How will the presence of augment slots affect ML? If the loot from chests is a static ML, are augments going to basically "steal" part of the bonus of your generated gear to equal that ML? Are augment slots still gonna appear on random enchant gear at all?


No Worries Quote:
augment slot won't do anything to the ML of the item, there is just a chance to get a slot.


Some Dude Quote:
What about Masterful/Wondrous Craftsmanship?


No Worries Quote:
Not yet determined.


Some Dude
Quote:
Will loot gems and other loot boosts result in +ML gear in chests? This actually makes them much more worthwhile than they are now because you'll have some clue of what you're actually GETTING.


No Worries Quote:
Loot gems already add to the level of the loot you roll. If you are in a level 12 quest and have +5 boosts, you roll on the level 17 table. That won't change, but the ML will directly change since the ML is now tied to the level of the loot.


Some Dude Quote:
Will there be insight bonuses available for non-stat stuff, like Insight Armor, Insight Skill, Insight Accuracy, Insight Deadly, Insight Resistance that kind of thing? I hope so, that would be super-cool.


No Worries Quote:
Many things will have Insight boosts yes (and Quality boosts, but Quality is reserved for named items and not random loot).


Some Dude Quote:
Will it be possible to get Insightful bonuses up to +3 on HEROIC gear? (or half of whatever the max enhancement + is available on sub ML 20 gear) Or are insight bonuses on gear still gonna be epic-only apart from specific named gear?


No Worries Quote:
Currently no restrictions on when they can show up.


Some Dude Quote:
Are the ML's for basic augments going to get adjusted? Level 28 for +8/+2 is already wildly silly. This will probably make that look completely absurd. At the very least it should be Level 28 for +8/+4 augments. It'd make better sense if level 30 was +11/+5 stat augments and it dropped by 1 for every 3 levels down to +1 at level 1.


No Worries Quote:
No changes are being made to existing augments in this update. That would be a giant task unto itself. That doesn't mean it isn't something we can discuss for the future.


Some Dude Quote:
If the augments change the ML of the item, is that going to affect the bonuses of the OTHER effects on the item? So, if I slot a level 20 augment into a ML 12 item, everything on that item gets upgraded to level 20 bonus? That . . . might be cool.

+1 Exceptional stat boosts are basically gonna become irrelevant.


No Worries Quote:
No, the augment changing the minimum level will not boost the power of the effects on the item.


So, if Masterful/Wondrous makes it in, we're talking the possibility of say, for example, ML 8 Gloves with Dex+6, Accuracy +6, an Augment slot AND POSSIBLY A THIRD EFFECT??

No Worries Quote:
Items will drop at the level of the quest, but items should also typically be a bit more powerful than what drops now.


...A bit?.............. Shocked

« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:16pm by Bones »  

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Re: New loot changes
Reply #27 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:50pm
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Bones wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:02pm:
..A bit?.

obsoleting raid and quest items because good design. they needed to follow PoE loot system. Where unique items are a cornerstone of builds with abilities that make your build do something different and rare items are used to fill in gaps of stats. But these devs dont know what theyre doing, so
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #28 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:19pm
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So, customers buy loot gems, which put the loot they loot out of reach of the characters playing those dungeons? That may need a rethink.
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #29 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 7:13am
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Can we get a text dump for the working stiffs? I don't want to read at home.
  

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Re: New loot changes
Reply #30 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 7:38am
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We are excited to give you our first Lamannia look at changes to randomized loot. We’ve done a ton of work on this already, and expect further work to be done for Update 29 and beyond. Here’s a basic idea of what’s happening:

Scaling Effects

Effects will now scale behind-the-scenes. This means that instead of seeing Dazing II or Dazing IV on an item, you’ll just see Dazing. However, the amount of the bonus will change as the item scales up, and the descriptions will accurately reflect the benefit. This allows us to build new items (and higher-level items) more quickly, and helps us better maintain our list of effects.

Prefixes and Suffixes

Currently on the Live servers, random loot has a Prefix, a Suffix, and an Enhancement bonus, and the overall power of the item is divided between the three effects.

Going forward, Prefixes, Suffixes, and Enhancement bonuses will be independent of one another, meaning you can get multiple very good effects on a given item. Additionally, there is a chance for an additional effect to go along with the Prefix and Suffix, which is also independent. Giving the possibility of 3 effects on the item all of which determine their own level independently.

Insightful Effects

Most effects now come in three bonuses:
· Main (typically Enhancement or Equipment bonuses)
· Insight (half the value of the main bonus type)
· Quality (only on named items; half the value of Insight bonuses)

Some items can now drop with both the Main and Insightful version of an effect on the same item, so you could end up with Strength +14 and Insightful Strength +7 on the same item.

Slots

Currently, there are four categories where we slot various effects: Weapons, Armor, Physical Accessory Effects, and Mental Accessory Effects. We plan to switch over to a list of effects that can show up on each slot, and different slots can overlap with one another. We expect that the exact placement of “which slot can have what” will require more polish, and will likely be tweaked over time.

Minimum Level

Currently on the Live servers, the Minimum Level of an item is determined “on the fly” by its Enhancement value and other effects. Starting in Update 29, the Minimum Level of the items you see in chests will be based on the level of the dungeon itself – so a level 10 dungeon on normal would drop Minimum Level 10 random loot, and level 12 loot on Elite. Behind the scenes how these minimum levels work is different (improved) so please let us know if you see anything odd on Lamannia.

Extra Lucky Loot

You can now get extra power on an item! In addition to the normal range of effect power an item can have, there will be the rare chance of the item getting even more power beyond its normal range for that minimum level.

Where does all this sit as of right now on Lamannia:

Our random loot update is still in progress. So far we’ve mostly created all of the scaling effects, and made both scaling and the effects themselves work. Now we’re at the point of adding the effects to various slots. In this preview, weapons, shields, and armor should be showing up with the new effects. Accessories are being worked on, and are in a mixed state for this preview.

There will be bugs. Polish will be needed. You’ll probably run into some issues. Please let us know about them. We also want to have feedback and discussion on what effects should show up where. Please remember that this system is still being worked on; in other words - Don’t Panic! We expect many iterations and tweaks to happen. There are also likely effects that are completely missing, and will need to be added back into random loot. Please help us find them!

Current Known Issues:

Striding/Speed effects don’t have a cap like they should.
Some Insight bonuses can show up at levels below where they should, causing a +0 bonus.
There are likely some effect/description errors.
Effect restrictions aren't implemented yet. This means unfortunate situations like assassination on ranged weapons can happen.
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #31 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 7:39am
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That? Or something else?
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #32 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 9:37am
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All the new random loot last night was fucked up, no values just names of properties.
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #33 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 7:57pm
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Grand wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 9:37am:
All the new random loot last night was fucked up, no values just names of properties.


This does not bode well if they intend to drop this on Live in the next two weeks.

There is simply too much going on, and no way they can do quality control.
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #34 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 8:44pm
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PersonaNonGrata wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 7:57pm:
no way they can do quality control.


I'm nearly certain that the correct response is:

Hi Welcome
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: New loot changes
Reply #35 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 10:38pm
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OldCoaly wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 8:44pm:
I'm nearly certain that the correct response is:

Hi Welcome


I know that came out wrong.
I didn't mean to sound as though that it was expected (not that naive), but they can't even pretend to have done any decent reviews in the timeframe.
It's just going to be a huge mess.
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #36 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 2:18am
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The faster they get it to live, the faster we can start identifying for them what quality control would need to fix, if they had a QA dept.

It's still essential to their process, because how else are they going to get a cheap laugh in that dreary, resentment filled, fun killzone they call a workplace?


TL;DR: Hi Welcome
  

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Re: New loot changes
Reply #37 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:23am
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kum-gulp wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 7:39am:
That? Or something else?


Thanks.

kum-gulp wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 7:38am:
Scaling Effects

Effects will now scale behind-the-scenes. This means that instead of seeing Dazing II or Dazing IV on an item, you’ll just see Dazing. However, the amount of the bonus will change as the item scales up, and the descriptions will accurately reflect the benefit. This allows us to build new items (and higher-level items) more quickly, and helps us better maintain our list of effects.


The bonus increases as you level?  Huh
  

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Re: New loot changes
Reply #38 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:23am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:23am:
The bonus increases as you level?  Huh

It is confusingly worded. I read it as:

* dazing only will show in the header, i.e. item names for random loot, and
* as the item "levels", i.e. dependent on it's minimum level, this changes, and
* the scaled effect for that item level is clear in the property description text.

e.g.

Quote:
+12 Game Knowing Mouse of Loot Designery
Minimum Level: 6
Damage: 2d12+12 [14-36]

Game Knowing
This Mouse knows it's own game and is able to correct dev mistakes as they make them. This effect scales with the item's level. Game Knowing corrects a number of mistakes as follows; ML1-5: 2 mitakes, ML6-11: 3 mostakes, ML12-17: 4 mistaeks, ML18-23: 5 {string table error}, ML28-30: 10 misstayks.

Loot Designery
It is rumoured that the ancient Giants knew of a Mouse that could design loot that had imaginative properties. These properties can be drawn through a mystical Portal to Massachusetts and are selected from a random table, covered in post-it notes and Cheeto's dust, before appearing on each successful hit made with this weapon. The number of effects drawn down depend on the weapon's minimum level. We promised we would make that clear here but we haven't bothered finishing all our

So before it would've been +12 Game Knowing IV Mouse of Loot Designery, now it'd be something like ^ that.
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #39 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:48am
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Hmmm.

So you could slot a high ML augment in a low level item and the enhancements will scale up?
  

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Re: New loot changes
Reply #40 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 7:04am
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My guess is that they haven't considered that use case yet. But I dunno, they're not very clear and I've not got Lama installed.
  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #41 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 7:07am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:48am:
Hmmm.

So you could slot a high ML augment in a low level item and the enhancements will scale up?


Nope

Quote:
Some Dude:
- If the augments change the ML of the item, is that going to affect the bonuses of the OTHER effects on the item? So, if I slot a level 20 augment into a ML 12 item, everything on that item gets upgraded to level 20 bonus? That . . . might be cool.

+1 Exceptional stat boosts are basically gonna become irrelevant.



Quote:
No Worries:
- No, the augment changing the minimum level will not boost the power of the effects on the item.


Would have been kinda cool actually
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2015 at 7:08am by Artorias »  
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #42 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 5:17pm
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Artorias wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 7:07am:
Would have been kinda cool actually


it would have been the first thing worthwhile added to the game since anni cards were disabled
  

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Re: New loot changes
Reply #43 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 8:35pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:48am:
So you could slot a high ML augment in a low level item and the enhancements will scale up?

So is there a way to see the level of the item if it has an augment slotted? Like PoE's "Itemlevel" command?
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: New loot changes
Reply #44 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 3:39am
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Meursault wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 8:35pm:
So is there a way to see the level of the item if it has an augment slotted? Like PoE's "Itemlevel" command?


The augment will have it's own ML listed, or it will show up as "absolute minimum level."
  

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