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Flipton
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First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:26pm
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https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/468414-Legendary-Green-Steel#post57342...




Varguoille wrote: Quote:
Default Legendary Green Steel
Legendary Shroud and Legendary Green Steel (LGS) are coming! This post is about the broad, general structure of Legendary Green Steel crafting.

As many players know, Green Steel is a wide-reaching, complex crafting system. Some of these concepts here are fairly high level and abstract. This is not a post where every possible Green Steel effect is going to be listed. We're going to explain how it works on a high level, and a bit about how we're expecting it to be different from heroic (though you shouldn't need to know that process in detail to understand most of this post!)

Some of the design goals driving choices below include simplification and reducing error as much as possible, while some relate to technical challenges in such a large system where we are adding Augments.


High Level Concepts
Legendary Green Steel is a crafting system by which you collect various ingredients, craft weapons of nearly any kind, or accessory/equipment slots (but not armor, and some equipment slots are missing), and can upgrade those items several times to make them stronger.

Here's what you do:


Play Update 29 quests & raids, collecting ingredients. This includes all 3 raids - yes, Legendary Hound of Xoriat and Legendary Tempest Spine provide indirect access to Legendary Green Steel ingredients. (There's some extra steps here because we don't want to simply drop Devil Scales for players who might not even own the Vale and aren't going to be crafting LGS.) We currently plan for Tier 1 and Tier 2 ingredients to be found in various quests. Tier 3 ingredients will only drop in the Shroud.
Craft "blank" weapons and equipment. This will use crafting materials primarily from Shroud end-chests.
Craft Legendary Green Steel Augments (LGSA).
Each blank LGS item has 4 Green Steel Augment Slots. These slots cannot hold any augments that exist in Update 28 or earlier, but instead hold various kinds of Legendary Green Steel augments crafted from LGS ingredients. (These slots only hold Green Steel Augments, and these Green Steel Augments only go in these slots, in other words.)
There will be hundreds of different possible augments. There's a few different ways to count them, and some are definitely similar to one another, but depending on how you count them there are between ~120 and ~600 augments (depending on what you consider "different" augments - the lower number is ).


From a high level, that's Legendary Green Steel.

Legendary Green Steel Augments?
These are a new type of Augments, which are not compatible nor interchangeable with existing Augments and slots.

Each LGS blank has 4 slots: Tiers 1,2,3, plus an "Active" slot. Each tiered slot can hold an augment of the appropriate tier (crafted from ingredients), and the active slot can hold one augment which adds a "clicky" active ability to the item.

You can create and slot your Augments in any order. If you want to start with Tier 3, or just put in a an Active, go for it.

Weapons and Equipment (sometimes called "Accessories") have different tiered Augment slots. When you craft an augment, you might be specifically making a Tier 2 Weapon Air Dominion Ethereal augment, for instance. There is a similar augment for Equipment, but which produces a different effect than the weapon version, much like Heroic Green Steel. However, the Active slot is the same for weapons and equipment. Any active can be slotted into either weapons or equipment.

These Green Steel Augments will fit into existing Augment bags.

We expect to offer an ‘extractor’ type option in the Store specifically for these Green Steel Augments in the event that you want to replace a slot but don’t want to lose the augment you made.

Basic Information

Minimum Level: All LGS items, weapons and equipment, are currently planned to be minimum level 26.
Weapons have a base 5[W] damage.
There is no 20th reward list for Legendary raids.
You collect Codex Runes (name subject to change) by completing Legendary Shroud.
These are used to craft Blank weapons and equipment, and to deal with the Legendary Taint of Shavarath on Equipment.
You get more Codex Runes on Hard and even more on Elite.
These are BTA.
These might be used as turn-ins for other kinds of rewards (such as you might have found on a 20th reward list).

You collect Legendary tiered ingredients that are highly analogous to the tiered ingredients in Heroic Green Steel.
By "tiered", we mean things like Legendary Small Devil Scales, Legendary Medium Gnawed Bones, and Legendary Large Length of Infernal Chains.
There are six different ingredients per tier (just like Heroic).
These ingredients are BTA.

Blanks are the initial Weapons and Equipment with empty Augment slots.
These are created from Codex Runes at the Altar of Fecundity in Meridia. This is the exact same eldritch crafting device used for Heroic Green Steel. This one device has some of the recipes used for both Heroic and Legendary Green Steel.
Blanks are ML:26, and BTC. Legendary Green Steel items don't change minimum level nor binding status.

Crafting Legendary Green Steel Augments
These are created at three different tiers of altars within the Shroud, like Heroic Green Steel.
First you construct Focuses, Essences, and Gems at these altars, then combine those to create Augments. (This process is very similar to crafting Heroic Green Steel Shards.)
Legendary Green Steel Focuses, Essences, Gems, and Augments are BTA.
These Augments use a new custom UI. They don't behave exactly like existing (u28 and earlier) Augments!

Handwraps are not included in Legendary Green Steel in Update 29. We wanted to get the revamp of handwrap technology in for Update 29, but that's a fairly massive task and just couldn't be done. We understand this is quite frustrating for some players.



Deeper Details & Similarities and Difference from Heroic
The general structure is broadly similar to Heroic Green Steel.

Many Legendary Augments are similar to Heroic Shards

Our current plan is to that most of the tiered effects of Legendary Augments be similar in nature to the effects found in Heroic Shards, scaled up to Legendary potency. Bonuses here include things like spell powers, Wizardry, hitpoints, Exceptional bonuses to ability scores, saving throws, and bonuses to "Charisma" skills (for example), Insightful ability scores, Inherent elemental resist, etc. These are all kinds of bonuses currently accessible Heroic Green Steel tiered shards.

Barter Shop style UI
Like most modern crafting systems, you can see all the recipes. Just like Heroic Green Steel is like now, since my first task years ago converting the old mystery system to the new system.

Weapon & Equipment Augments
In Heroic, you make a single shard and apply it to either a weapon or equipment (aka: accessory), getting a different effect depending on which you put it in. Due to the use of Augments here, and lacking a desire to be highly mysterious, there are separate Augments for Weapons vs. Accessories. When you make a Tier 1 Fire Dominion Ethereal augment, you also choose if you are making a weapon or equipment augment, which can tell you exactly what it's going to do, unlike Heroic Green Steel (since the Shard could have been put into either a Weapon or Equipment.)

Tier 2 Active / Clicky / "Bonus" effects
Tier 1,2,3 Augments are very similar to Heroic shards of the same tiers. Instead of crafting a tier 3 Magma shard and applying it to your tier 2 weapon, you just craft a tier 3 Magma Weapon Augment and slot it into your weapon (possibly crushing the existing augment to bits). You don't have to go through the tiers in ascending order.

Those familiar with Heroic GS and paying close attention may notice the Active slot - in Heroic, this was generally granted by a "tier 2 Bonus Effect" (as it was sometimes known), which you got by choosing the appropriate Tier 1 and Tier 2 focuses - such as tier 1 Fire and tier 2 Positive (Radiance), or Fire and Earth (Magma), or even Fire and Fire (Aspect of Fire). For both design and technical reasons, we're removing the tier 2 Bonus Effects per se. There's no special bonus for what you put into the tier 1 and tier 2 slots (not public, not secret).

However, we're adding the "Active" augment slot so you can still put a clicky in your Green Steel. It will be another option and axis - the choice is independent of all tiered abilities. You pick one clicky no matter what other choices you make - it's not inherently tied to the Focuses you put into tier. These clickies will generally be for new abilities; they won't just be Heroic Green Steel effects (scaled up or otherwise), though we're still considering if some of the Heroic active abilities are so desirable that we should replicate them in Legendary.

Active slots will be identical between weapons and equipment. Whatever Active Augment you make, it can be slotted into either weapon or equipment.

We realize some items are likely to end up with nothing but a clicky on them. That's OK. We'll try to be careful with the cost of clickies with this in mind.

Tier 3 Augments
This may make more sense for those familiar with Heroic Green Steel.

Tier 3 Augments are always created with two Focuses, a Primary and Secondary (in addition to an Essence and Gem, like Heroic Green Steel). So you might make a tier 3 Fire earth Dominion Material Augment, for instance (aka: Magma).
There are no single-focus tier 3 Augments. You can make a Fire Fire tier 3 augment, however.
Unlike Heroic Green Steel, you can pick any Focus to be the Primary. This Primary Focus determines which tier 3 effect the augment provides - it doesn't provide both bonuses, only the one from the Primary Focus. (In heroic, there was always a "dominant" Focus. This was fairly restrictive, as it meant you couldn't actually get tier 3 Negative effects except by making a Triple Negative item, because negative was always the 'secondary' Focus - and some elements were similarly over-represented while others were difficult to get.) This increases the number of options by 6x - so the 36 tier 1 & 2 shards becomes 216 tier 3 Augments (for each of Weapons and Equipment).
To re-iterate, there's nothing in Legendary like a "single affinity shard". Everything is a Dual Shard. The heroic method of creating Dual Shards (which were most player's goal!) were a frequent source of confusion, error, and frustration. While having 216 Weapon and 216 Equipment tier 3 Shards is still complex, we hope that this method helps make the complexity both more obvious (so you know what to watch for!) and a bit more comprehensible, and most of all far less error prone. (The common, and costly, mistake of applying one tier 3 heroic shard before trying to add a second tier 3 heroic shard is impossible in Legendary.)


Tier 3 "Bonus" Effects etc.
This flavor & to an extent "mystery" is retained. This is what the Primary & Secondary focuses in tier 3 are about - the secondary focus only really matters for this. Based on your slotted Augments, you receive a bonus effect. The bonus effect is only shows up after putting the augments in, since it depends on combinations of all three tiers of augments.

Tier 3 Bonus Effects may or may not be similar to Heroic versions (scaled up to higher numbers if so). Some of this may depend on time, but we'd like to be more creative here - rather than in the normal Tiered effects, which are mostly well suited for simply coming up into Legendary with higher value numbers.

Legendary Taint of Shavarath
It's real, and painful if you equip multiple pieces of Legendary Green Steel Equipment. Exact methods for dealing with it will be somewhat analogous to heroic. Details to come later.

Other Heroic Ingredients
Many ingredients from Heroic are not making the transition to Legendary. This includes most of the blank-creation ingredients such as Chipmunk Funk, Tapers, Shavarath Stones, and Signet Stones. They didn't really fit the model for Legendary as they did for heroic Vale, and in many ways were a source of confusion and unnecessary complexity.




Thanks for reading!

We're happy to hear your feedback on anything here. Or really about a whole ton of things relating to Legendary Green Steel. It's a big complex system. We expect questions, comments, feedback, concerns, etc.

There will be some more details upcoming, including what you can expect to see on Lamannia soon (which is not everything!)
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #1 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:34pm
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wow. dat grind incoming.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Flipton
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:36pm
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Vagoo Wrote: Quote:
We expect to offer an ‘extractor’ type option in the Store


Fuckers. Safe bet it wont we available as a 20th reward eh?


*edit: Oh look, Vagooey wrote: Quote:
There is no 20th reward list for Legendary raids.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:38pm by »  
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Flipton
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #3 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:36pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:34pm:
wow. dat grind incoming.


All raids, for mats...
  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #4 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:45pm
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Quote:
All raids, for mats...

most uninspired devs ever
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #5 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:52pm
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No dumbass, they're mediocre. Most of the people have about 6 int in real life and chew rather than playing.
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #6 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:55pm
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Quote:
Vagoo Wrote:
*edit: Oh look, Vagooey wrote:


It was expected... They tried to kill the 20th list last year... and got a PC Rebuke as a reward...

Since anybody not a fanboy has been purged from this year PC, they probably have managed to roll out all the things we told them Hell No! last year.
Expect fun changes to appear... *heads towards Vault leak for some popcorn*

  

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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #7 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:11pm
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No 20th. 4 slots worth of extracting money. Sounds like a mega grind. Grind your mats, grind your augments, don't bank on any guaranteed rewards. I'll be interested to see what the drop rates for ingredients are after a few months, I suspect it'll be in Fuck That territory.
  
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Flipton
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #8 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:29pm
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More importantly, you will have to do Legendary shroud multiple times just to get enough Runes to make a weapon blank in the first place.

They are going to rake in the money on raid timers.
  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #9 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:31pm
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That told us almost nothing, it's just the interface.  I want to see what kind of stats and properties are available.
  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #10 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:52pm
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everything is btc or bta? what the fuck
  
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Flipton
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #11 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:53pm
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rest wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:52pm:
everything is btc or bta? what the fuck




That has been pointed out and complained about on the mobo thread several times, Varg is avoiding addressing it like the plague so far.
  
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Flipton
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #12 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:56pm
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AtomicMew wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 2:31pm:
That told us almost nothing, it's just the interface.  I want to see what kind of stats and properties are available. 


Sounds and awful lot like scaled up properties with TBD top end stuff Atomic,  I'm getting a real 'not finished' vibe all around, they will have to push it out in the next two weeks no matter what, so I am going to hold off making anything as I foresee a shit load of changes and bugs.
  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #13 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:05pm
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Quote:
That has been pointed out and complained about on the mobo thread several times, Varg is avoiding addressing it like the plague so far.



Yeah I saw it.

I also like the moron who said "if you want the gear you need to run the content". Fuck you, idiot. Look at heroic shroud, with only portions being btc. That is the most successful crafting system in the game.

I don't know why they have such a hard on for this augment system. Just to sell removal tools I suppose. And they confirmed there will be no in-game way to acquire them.. well I guess technically you can save favour rewards of TP from when you TR and use those to buy them. Technically that means you can get them in game.

I wish I could say that I can't believe they would make everything bound, but just about everything worth a shit lately has been locked up tighter than a goddamned chinese fingertrap. Someone with decision making power has a real affection for bound stuff. And has for too damn long.



  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #14 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:07pm
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If it's true that a lot of the AS in circulation are duped then they have little incentive to make anything tradeable.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:07pm by kum-gulp »  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #15 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:11pm
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rest wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
Just to sell removal tools I suppose.

and augment bags. and legend timers.  Grin

rest wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
there will be no in-game way to acquire them


unless you buy them "in game"

Quote:
a real 'not finished' vibe all around, they will have to push it out in the next two weeks no matter what

yep.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Flipton
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #16 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:12pm
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rest wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
Look at heroic shroud, with only portions being btc. That is the most successful crafting system in the game.



QFT^



You will notice that he has said there will be ways to get some of the things normally 20th lists, but not extractors. 

I would offer this, 20th lists? gone because they want it to require 40-50 runs, so even the stingiest players will buy timers at some point.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:14pm by »  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #17 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:12pm
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rest wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
Someone with decision making power has a real affection for bound stuff. And has for too damn long.

Or maybe those super terrible casual players in  Player Council ? Or those OCD people with 57 mules and perfect setup gear for every two heroic levels.

How cool it would be to have everything in the game unbound.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:13pm by Wipe »  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #18 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:13pm
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Charging a 30% cut is a sure fire way to cut down on those alleged duped astral shards innit?

  
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Flipton
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #19 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:17pm
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I don't want to derail here, but regarding dupe shards, it was a small window and very few people could manage it. Even though the number they made was massive for a individual it was consumed by the exchange easily.

I think this is specifically about making the path to power go through the store.
  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #20 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:28pm
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Is the new shroud up yet? Did they just take old shroud and add 100000000 hp and 1000 saves to everything?

If they're trying to create a new shroud, and new quests, we can all look forward to them being as thrilling as the devil gambit shit, where you kill X mobs to unlock a door, then kill Y mobs to unlock a door and throw a lever, and then kill Z mobs to unlock the other lever to unlock another door...

OH and here are a shit ton of mob spawns that are just a DPS test. GG.
  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #21 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:52pm
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Augment system is also going to change ( at lesat behind the scene ) because :
Quote:
the existing/older augment system is in fact a GIGANTIC TECHNICAL NIGHTMARE

( unnamed Turbine employee )
  

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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #22 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:10pm
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Haha is that the system Feather did on weekends?
--
Yeah, good point about the 30% cut. Though it depends on whether those people would ever bother buying them again. Self-fulfilling prophecy I guess as there is little worth buying on there. I think Flip is probably right. A new revenue avenue.
  
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #23 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:12pm
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Quote:

The fact that he was able to summarize it so short makes me wanna vomit.
Srsly, a totall new concept of crafting, maybe nice to be able to reset augment slots, but overall, will suck dicks.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2015 at 5:12pm by m4lacka »  

Vaultaccount wrote on Aug 29th, 2016 at 7:06pm:
The most broken epic PL in the game is the ridiculous AC buff from martial PLs. But when you include all the inherent benefits from reincarnation, the thing is above the roof. The benefit from TR was supposed to be minimal, but now it is game breaking. start a new character and you will feel, you will get raped in heroics.

Personally I think lower heroics on new characters are harder than Legendary Elite content on a character with good gear and has all destinies farmed.


Arkat wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:14pm:
And someone in another thread called ME delusional recently!

Wow.

Have you EVER gone to Law School Feyn? Have you EVER been asked by a United States Senator who is now the Vice President of the United States to write a paper just for him on a particular topic of Constitutional Law for his use as a Senator? Have you ever been asked to help a very notable Harvard PhD turned Constitutional scholar with his very-well received book on Legal Philosophy and Constitutional Revolutions? Have you ever been offered a job as a Deputy Attorney General BEFORE you even graduated Law School?

No? Then STFU you fucking amateur.


Meat-Head wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 12:03am:
Thx. I was semi-waiting because windows 10 will be here soon. but, the crashing is making me want to punch old people.


IMARANGER wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 5:40pm:
Pretty sure that the fact that a service can be hacked doesn't make it the "community chest".
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Re: First look at Legendary greensteel from Vag.
Reply #24 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 10:33pm
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More importantly, you will have to do Legendary shroud multiple times just to get enough Runes to make a weapon blank in the first place.

They are going to rake in the money on raid timers.


I'm hearing a lot of "whoa big grind" comments.  But, meh.  It's the same grind as old GS.  No more.  No less.  Maybe a little less considering you don't need pie pieces and base item mats and can get mats from 3 raids instead of 1.  That also means less Raid Timers if you can grind 3 raids on separate timers.  If you have 3 toons, you can get 21 runs in per week and run the raids every day and never use a timer.

Still, it will be some timer usage, especially for your more affluent and/or undisciplined players. 

I'm a bit bummed the mats are not unbound.  I liked the BTC shards, BTC pie pieces with everything else unbound.  Wouldn't have minded BTA shards back in the day, honestly, but BTA wasn't a thing back then.   

  
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