Yeah you got me, I read it wrong (although I see it's 50, heh). My probably unfair assumption was they'd load the dice like so many other in the game and make it tend toward the longer end of the scale.

Game design is hard.

Flav wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:51pm:


But until the new bypass timers become readily available, there is a greater cost to 4 EN raid runs vs. 1 EE raid run.  Or 2 EN vs. 1 EH. 

I personally think that the sweet spot will settle in at EH.  EH is twice as fast to 1250 as EN, but not twice as hard, in any raid I've been in.  EE, although 4 times as fast as EN, is probably too much risk vs. reward. 

If we were still in the world with 100's of bypass timers in inventory, then yes, EN runs would still be common place for their ease and speed.  But, in a world where they are more of a premium, you will see more EH runs. 

[quote ]Named items cost 1250 Runes
Normal drops 25-75 Runes
Hard drops 50-150 Runes
Elite drops 100-200 Runes


This means (assuming you only run one difficulty) getting one item from the barter shop looks like:
Normal: Average of 25 runs (17-50 runs)
Hard: Average of 13 runs (8-25 runs)
Elite: Average of 8 runs (7-13 runs)
[/quote]

translation -

Normal: Average of 68.75 days (46.75 to 137.5 days)
Hard: Average of 35.75 days (19.25 to  68.75 days)
Elite: Average of 22 days (19.25 to 35.75 days)

This doesn't factor in the time to post, assemble, complete and turn in the raid.

Darkrok wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 3:37pm:


If legendary shroud is anything like DoJ then we can conclude that almost all the runs will be made on EN. Tried an EH 4 days ago and the party lag wiped brutally even if we were cutting trough devils with no effort (could have even done EE). Before we start believing turdbine we should check the actual raids and see IF EH and EE runs are affordable.


I like the idea that EH and EE will get nameds faster but my spider sense tells me it's just one big fucking scam to prevent named items from dropping in the first place. They want us to run the new raids a LOT since there probably won't be anything else that will classify as end game. Of course this is just a wild guess so I may be wrong

Cant argue with the lag complaints.  Especially in DoJ and MoD.  I cringe at EE runs for that reason only.  I'd be excited to do EE runs if we just got a fair shake at it.

Darth Anonymous wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 11:24pm:


Lol those were my thoughts as well. It creates another really nice event which will just lag endlessly although I do like the idea, if you have a group that can handle harder difficulties. If nothing else, you can always solo your way to 20th lists now on multiple characters.

This might also bring back some form of raid preparation for characters like old shroud used to have with linking of BB.

Flav wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:08pm:

In terms of frequency of choice in Argo pugs:
traps > mario > portals
tower > red/green light > gravity

Portals is rare enough to say that it never happens. Red light, green light is fairly close to gravity, but the difference is noticeable. I have never seen a group not take tower when available, except in the first month from the raid's release.

There are two huge advantage to this system that no one really mentioned.

1) You won't run the risk of pulling something or missing a chance to roll on a piece of gear you chose for your 20th/40th/whatever run.

Say you are running DoJ and are after the boots, helm and ring.
You get to 20 completions and decide to take the boots only to have the boots drop under your name on the first end chest you loot after ransack is done. You basically wasted your 20th reward list. Annoying but less frustrating case when someone puts the boots up for roll on your next run... And all you had to do was beat a 17 on a d100 roll.

With the new system you can be calculated and gain a lot!
For simplicity sake let's say you need 100 runes per item and are after 4 items. You keep running your main and Alts till you get 400 runes. If one of your desired items drops for you than great! Keep running till you reach 300 runes. If you already accumulated 370 runes then use 300 to barter for the rest of your desired items and save the remainder 70 for the efforts of getting gear on an alt.

Depending on how many legendary raid timers/Alts you use/urgency you have to get all the items you can either do the most efficient method of not claiming any reward until you have enough runes for completing your wish list on all toons or just use the above mentioned method and just stop running your completed toons. You could also wait on claiming rewards on your strongest toons so you can keep using them for elites and have full benefit of any item that drops for you or is put up for roll.

2) Runes only drop off ransack.

This means more chances of items put up for roll every time you run the raid.

There is the possible downside of elite raids being filled by not elite ready toons though at this point of the game it would be great if a) raids fill and b) level 30 toons can be not elite ready.

To conclude:
I like the new system a great deal.

SayWhatAgain wrote on Dec 9^th, 2015 at 7:27am:


Anybody come up with a decent way to determine when a person/character is Elite/Raid ready yet? Looking for something to implement that's less time consuming than watching pugs perform in specific situations on hard runs or alternate characters although the latter is not as important.

Could they have done it without adding yet another fucking ingredient? Yes. Yes they could have.

Asheras wrote on Dec 9^th, 2015 at 9:52am:


That won't be a problem at all with first 2-3 weeks drop rates, the problem is stealth drop rate nerf in every single 1st patch after the update under any other excuse, like solving lag which, of course, reamains unsolved.

Asheras wrote on Dec 9^th, 2015 at 10:12am:

I think he meant something more along the lines of having an account-wide counter for raid points equivalent to their currently proposed ingredients. They would have to display the current amount in the NPC dialogue and perhaps update the compendium with your point total for each raid.

They wouldn't be able to use it to push their sales of bags, shared bank, and ingredients bank or reuse their barter dialogue boxes. There's a possibility that the inventory-less system could be vulnerable to a duplication or recycling exploit, but likely less vulnerable than an ingredient and not vulnerable to transferring exploits.