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Novalis
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Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Mar 28th, 2016 at 9:30pm
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https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/473902-Downtime-Notice-Tuesday-March-2...


Cordo-stain says


The game worlds will be brought down for maintenance on Tuesday, March 28th from 8:00 AM - 11:00 AM Eastern (-5 GMT). This downtime will be used to make adjustments at our data center to improve game performance. When the worlds reopen, two game worlds will have one configuration change on them, two will have a different change, and all will have had a GLS dll update applied to them.

When the worlds reopen, we would like to continue to get your experiences and reports. Please provide the following information:

1. Server
2. Approximate Time
3. Approximate location of your computer (East Cost, London, Tokyo, on a boat in the Pacific, alternate reality x87, etc.)
4. Quests/raids run
5. Difficulties run
6. Your character class
7. Number of players in the group
8. Anything else you think we should know

Thanks!


Can't wait to see the epic failure of this. NOTE that fuck-stick didn't even get the dates right in his own post for Tuesday. So it's whack-a-mole with shit-flinging and seeing what sticks?!  Huh
« Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2016 at 9:39pm by Novalis »  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #1 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 10:07pm
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"We have no idea what computers is doing.  We pushed some buttons, and somebody just cut a wire. We are going to take down the servers on Yesterday, let us know how much good they are going to have been."
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #2 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 11:34pm
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That does seem a bit like throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks but at least they are doing something.  I'd like a better description of what they are targeting.   That would help in stress testing if we knew what to area to push.   But I also understand the concept of confirmation bias and embedding.

Hard to be too positive. 
« Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2016 at 11:35pm by Asheras »  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #3 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 11:39pm
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Worse than a bunch of fucking man-children ignoring their adult responsibilites to play a fucking D&D role playing game from 2006, even under ideal conditions?  No, faggot, in the lexicon of the human situation, no; it fucking CAN'T get any worse-not even if all those people were fucking dead.
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #4 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:11am
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I know I was sort of joking before, but they are now literally using live servers as test servers.  They really, really need to come up with more systematic profiling and reporting tools.
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #5 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:48am
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Quote:
6. Your character class


I'm almost tempted to submit a bunch of reports about a class I don't play.  Except I'd really prefer that they fix stuff instead of chasing false reports, as amusing as that might be.

I can see it now:
Update 31 - The nerfing of the [class]!  After receiving dozens of reports concerning [class] associated with lag we have decided to remove several class abilities and change several others.  You'll love the results just as much as we do!
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #6 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:04am
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This seems to be a pretty pathetic admission that they really, truly have no idea at all what causes the "entire party frozen until killed by totally unaffected mobs" type of lag that they have laughed off for years (other than they seem to have made it worse by moving to the new servers.)

I doubt that they're going to find the root cause through this effort, but stranger things have happened. I wish them luck, if only because I'd like the next raid I run to not be 30 minutes of lag-wipe, raise party, lag-wipe, raise party, lag-wipe, ragequit.

  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #7 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:09am
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For the last month with all their tracert shit reminds me of when a woman goes into labor, someone says to go boil some water. It's not like they're gonna save the day, they're being sent out to do something away from where the real shit is happening. There are some that haven't been foolish enough to fall for this.

Once again this meaningless movement is just gonna be for decoration for the people that are kind of paying attention. An opportunity for the fanbois to start slathering each other with their boi-joi saying since the devs pushed the reset button everything is awesome and any problems is once again on the players side. But mainly it will be to buy more time, milk players out of that last sympathy micro-transaction, and give the devs a much needed ego boost. Not buying this horseshit. Seen too much, already called this shit months ago, and has been seen in other places only to repeat itself. The odds are good, I'm gonna double down.

  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #8 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 3:17am
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Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:48am:
I'm almost tempted to submit a bunch of reports about a class I don't play.  Except I'd really prefer that they fix stuff instead of chasing false reports, as amusing as that might be.

I can see it now:
Update 31 - The nerfing of the [class]!  After receiving dozens of reports concerning [class] associated with lag we have decided to remove several class abilities and change several others.  You'll love the results just as much as we do!


Severlin says Paladin Holy Sword is causing the lag - it will be nerfed immediately.
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #9 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 4:20am
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This stuff is causing me physical pain. If one of my Quality Managers came up with shit like that I would try to get him into a country where whipping was legal as a corporate punishment.
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #10 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 8:39am
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Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:48am:
I'm almost tempted to submit a bunch of reports about a class I don't play.  Except I'd really prefer that they fix stuff instead of chasing false reports, as amusing as that might be.

I can see it now:
Update 31 - The nerfing of the [class]!  After receiving dozens of reports concerning [class] associated with lag we have decided to remove several class abilities and change several others.  You'll love the results just as much as we do!


It's bound to be warlocks ... it's been several months, they even had a 20% sale so everyone who wanted to buy them did it. Now they'll make it so the aura only hits 1 enemy every 5 sec, just like they nerfed wail of the banshee.
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #11 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 9:42am
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Novalis wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:09am:
For the last month with all their tracert shit reminds me of when a woman goes into labor, someone says to go boil some water. It's not like they're gonna save the day, they're being sent out to do something away from where the real shit is happening. There are some that haven't been foolish enough to fall for this.

LOL, and to take it a step further, the fanbois will blame any birty defects on the fact that you boiled tap water instead of Perrier  Cheesy
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #12 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 10:05am
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My Bet - 15 hour downtime after which 2 of the game worlds remain down for another 2 hours before coming back up with the same configuation as the rest.  Hotfix Thursday.
« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2016 at 10:08am by Mr Reilly »  

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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #13 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 10:09am
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Oh, it's quote fun time.

GimpyPaw wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 10:07pm:
We have no idea what computers the VMs is are doing. "


FIFY

It appears that they tried to Virtualize the game servers... but they actually had no clue of what it entails in term of hardware management...
Virtualizing two servers into one hardware in just not getting a two times more powerful server... you need to make sure that both usages are compatible with each other and that
one usage does not starve the other of a specific hardware or computation power. Seems they didn't have any clue regarding that, and now are trying to find solutions tweaking the VMWare parameters. ( or Xen, or whatever Virtualizer they use )

Asheras wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 11:34pm:
That does seem a bit like throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks but at least they are doing something.  I'd like a better description of what they are targeting.   That would help in stress testing if we knew what to area to push.   But I also understand the concept of confirmation bias and embedding.


You know the quality of the communication as well as me, no way they are going to give us enough details to actually be of a real use into trying to fix their problem.
It's like the traceroute... where we all traced towards a server that's only involved into authenticating us to connect to the game and not the actual real game ( virtual ) servers.

AtomicMew wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:11am:
I know I was sort of joking before, but they are now literally using live servers Virtual Servers as test servers.


fify

pnellesen wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:04am:
This seems to be a pretty pathetic admission that they really, truly have no idea at all what causes the "entire party frozen until killed by totally unaffected mobs" type of lag that they have laughed off for years (other than they seem to have made it worse by moving to the new servers.)


Now that I had time to ponder about it, it looks typical of a VM starvation... It's either one VM starving another, or they hardware assignment to the VMs badly done.
Basically, there's an event ( say a Guild Renown earned ) that needs some computation power and to use some hardware... but that computation power or that hardware is used by another VM, that can't free it until it has finished doing what it's doing... So the VM is starving for the resource, ( while we hang in midair ), and get the thing done once the resource becomes available.
  

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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #14 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 10:40am
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Flav wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 10:09am:
...

It appears that they tried to Virtualize the game servers... but they actually had no clue of what it entails in term of hardware management...
Virtualizing two servers into one hardware in just not getting a two times more powerful server... you need to make sure that both usages are compatible with each other and that
one usage does not starve the other of a specific hardware or computation power. Seems they didn't have any clue regarding that, and now are trying to find solutions tweaking the VMWare parameters. ( or Xen, or whatever Virtualizer they use )



hopefully that's not the case...it's virtually (ha) impossible to do on the fly...much less in two hours during a downtime.  and I imagine they virtualized more than two servers.
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #15 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:53am
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Flav wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 10:09am:
It appears that they tried to Virtualize the game servers... but they actually had no clue of what it entails in term of hardware management...
Virtualizing two servers into one hardware in just not getting a two times more powerful server... you need to make sure that both usages are compatible with each other and that
one usage does not starve the other of a specific hardware or computation power. Seems they didn't have any clue regarding that, and now are trying to find solutions tweaking the VMWare parameters. ( or Xen, or whatever Virtualizer they use )

[...]

Now that I had time to ponder about it, it looks typical of a VM starvation... It's either one VM starving another, or they hardware assignment to the VMs badly done.
Basically, there's an event ( say a Guild Renown earned ) that needs some computation power and to use some hardware... but that computation power or that hardware is used by another VM, that can't free it until it has finished doing what it's doing... So the VM is starving for the resource, ( while we hang in midair ), and get the thing done once the resource becomes available.

Now that you've had time to ponder about shit you know nothing about, you're willing to share your gems of knowledge with us.

Thanks!

I've managed teams of people who have managed multiple aps run on VMs.  VMs are not evil, and they don't act anything like you describe.  Their weaknesses are typically configuration based, a failure to correctly allocate resources, which this lag fest does not in any way indicate.

And do you even have any information which even implies that DDO is now being run in VMs?  What I have read says that they have denied that the past setup was VM based.  I have not seen anything about the new data center which denies it being VMed, but then I won't claim to have seen everything they have published about the new data center.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #16 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:12pm
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Best part is, how many knowledgeable players have been banned from the motherforums for stupid things, oops, there goes that feedback and also, forums represent what little % of actual players and they expect useful feedback?

Fuck me jimmy ......
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #17 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:33pm
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Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:53am:
And do you even have any information which even implies that DDO is now being run in VMs?  What I have read says that they have denied that the past setup was VM based.  I have not seen anything about the new data center which denies it being VMed, but then I won't claim to have seen everything they have published about the new data center.


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/473717-Game-Performance-Improvements-a...

Cordovan :
Quote:
We have been working since moving DDO to a new data center to optimize in-game performance, and have additional work to do. We have heard from too many of you about lag and other issues, so we took steps this week to make some improvements. We expect these improvements to have some impact, but not "solve" lag in-game. We will continue to work in the coming days and weeks to make further adjustments.

Some answers:

1. What's being done to resolve these issues?

We are implementing new network connections and adjusting our main networking backbone. Additionally, we are troubleshooting server-side configuration changes.

2. Why is it taking so long?

As part of our move to the new data center we updated some architecture to modern operating systems and virtualization technologies. In some cases adjusting the old code to run in this new environment has added additional challenge.

3. What is happening in the next few days?

We will be migrating select networking components, and make additional configuration changes to servers. When these efforts require downtime, we'll let you know.


bolded it, just in case you missed the information again.
  

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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #18 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:57pm
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Flav wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:33pm:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/473717-Game-Performance-Improvements-a...

Cordovan :  In some cases adjusting the old code  Shocked to run in this new environment has added additional challenge.


bolded it, just in case you missed the information again.



Oh, Bloody Jesus on a stick, they're admitting to poking the old code with a damp noodle. But some people seem to think Cordo-stain and others like Shoemaker are devs too. Nothing to worry about.

I also think the following quote about adding challenge needs a special showcase in the future. Next time the fanbois cry the game needs to be harder they can just say 'We gave it to you already.' It's been a long running joke that this was how they were going to make the dreaded 'reaper' level by unleashing the lag monster in full fury. Or maybe this is how you entertain the monkeys over at Turbine when after all the poo flinging they've still proven over and over they don't know what the fuck they're doing.
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #19 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:57pm
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Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:53am:
Now that you've had time to ponder about shit you know nothing about, you're willing to share your gems of knowledge with us.

Thanks!

I've managed teams of people who have managed multiple aps run on VMs.  VMs are not evil, and they don't act anything like you describe.  Their weaknesses are typically configuration based, a failure to correctly allocate resources, which this lag fest does not in any way indicate.

And do you even have any information which even implies that DDO is now being run in VMs?  What I have read says that they have denied that the past setup was VM based.  I have not seen anything about the new data center which denies it being VMed, but then I won't claim to have seen everything they have published about the new data center.


There u go frank the retard y u so retarded retard too much soy sauce?

VM is fcuking u lag aahhahahah too buku 4 u
  
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Re: Can it get any worse? FUCK YES! Place your bets!
Reply #20 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:11pm
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While we wait for repairs to be made DDO & the Gong show  Presents Gene Gene the dancing machine.


Throw all your epic items at Gene!
« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:12pm by palmer01 »  
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Reply #21 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:11pm
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Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:53am:
Their weaknesses are typically configuration based, a failure to correctly allocate resources,



awesomium.dll would like a word with you, if that's not too much bother.

Turbine collectively couldn't go for a piss without soaking their clothes, what makes you think they wouldn't fuck this up?
  
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Reply #22 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:24pm
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Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:53am:
I've managed teams of people who have managed multiple aps run on VMs.  VMs are not evil, and they don't act anything like you describe.  Their weaknesses are typically configuration based, a failure to correctly allocate resources, which this lag fest does not in any way indicate.

I would agree that virtualized environments are not evil and can run pretty much anything these days.  If they can't, someone neglected to give Amazon, Google, Microsoft and many other multi-million dollar companies who run on largely virtualized environments that particular memo. 

The amount of data and sales per second that Amazon handles on Black Friday, Cyber Monday, etc. with virtualized infrastructure is staggering.  http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/15/news/amazon-walmart-sales/

The catch is, just like any other tech, P2V (physical to virtual) migrations have to be planned for, tested, and done correctly.  This is Turbine we're talking about, so we have a pretty good idea of how well (poorly) they planned it, tested, it and did it.  Even if their past track record of change management and testing wasn't terrible, the ongoing 3+ weeks of lagapocalypse speaks for itself.

The blame doesn't lie with virtualization.  It lies squarely upon the managers and executives at Turbine who were responsible for implementing the datacenter move.  In the end, the buck stops at Turbine.


As a reference point, I am my company's main network and sysadmin.  I am responsible for keeping 70+ VMs spread across 3 separate sites running smoothly. 

If I made or allowed someone else to make an infrastructure change that rendered our core business application unusable for a significant portion of our end users and/or customers for multiple weeks, I would justifiably be fired for incompetence.  It makes me cringe to even think about the impact doing something like this would have on my company's finances and customer retention.
« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2016 at 1:27pm by Digimonk »  
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Reply #23 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 3:17pm
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Still laggy on sarlona...
  
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Reply #24 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 3:31pm
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Flav wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:33pm:
bolded it, just in case you missed the information again.

Thanks for the links.  I'm not sure how this equals "all the game servers are now virtual machines," but I can see how that might be the assumption given that statement.

I stand by my position that VMs are not evil and can't be given the blame for the current lag fest.  I have the accolades of many customers who could care less if they were on VMs or no, who didn't even understand the question and only cared about results, to support that position.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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