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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks (Read 19274 times)
OnePercenter
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #25 - Apr 2nd, 2016 at 8:43pm
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Who Cares wrote on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 1:12pm:
I have always thought about becoming a fake lawyer myself. Would you mind sharing the name of the online diploma mill you used to get yours?

I don't have any infraction points so I figure it might be worth a few to see if I can't start some drama of my own. Cheesy

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One thing for everyone who is a "skeptic" on this issue: Insurance companies are basing their underwriting on the assumption that it is real. They are refusing to write policies on homes that are likely to be in danger from rising seas 20 years from now, even though the resale rate of the homes is so high that they could keep writing policies for another 10 years and still not have to pay out on 1 policy in 5, but that would be irresponsible. Unethical, as well, but that's never stopped anyone before.


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It is fairly natural to assume that the fair price for the pot is the fair value of the resources I needed to make the pot plus the fair value of my labor.

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You were right this time, OnePercenter. 


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Digimonk
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #26 - Apr 3rd, 2016 at 2:31pm
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Dude you must have some good stuff to smoke if you think they'll ever manage to fix handwraps.

It's on the list right below lag under the ETA heading of "Sometime On the Wrong Side of Never".
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #27 - Apr 3rd, 2016 at 5:27pm
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Is this looking like weaksauce compared to what Temests are able to do?

Big difference with Ranger and fighter and ranger has 2 very good offensive melee trees that synergize great together.  Fighter . . . just doesn't.  I'm not counting Vangaurd as it's only adds to one fighting style so YMMV if you're sword and bored. 

Fighter needs a second offensive tree for non-shield users.
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #28 - Apr 3rd, 2016 at 6:09pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 5:27pm:
Is this looking like weaksauce compared to what Temests are able to do?

Big difference with Ranger and fighter and ranger has 2 very good offensive melee trees that synergize great together.  Fighter . . . just doesn't.  I'm not counting Vangaurd as it's only adds to one fighting style so YMMV if you're sword and bored. 

Fighter needs a second offensive tree for non-shield users.


Just adding +1 multi and 20 melee power is kind of a big deal. It will compete.
  

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Bigjunk
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #29 - Apr 3rd, 2016 at 6:36pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 6:09pm:
Just adding +1 multi and 20 melee power is kind of a big deal. It will compete.


The numbers don't back that, what am I missing?
  
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Frank
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #30 - Apr 3rd, 2016 at 11:43pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 6:09pm:
Just adding +1 multi and 20 melee power is kind of a big deal. It will compete.

Hmmmm, I don't see it just looking at theory crafting numbers.  It's decent, but doesn't seem to be Holy Sword decent, and the lack of self heals persists.

Any Kensai changes need to be done in conjunction with Monk and handwrap changes.  But of course, they will not be.

If they ever happen at all.
  

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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #31 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 12:35am
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Where's the button where you deal quad damage like Dance of Death with two thirds of the time?

You know, the Staples EZ button win-mode?
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #32 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 10:47am
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Where's the button where you deal quad damage like Dance of Death with two thirds of the time?

You know, the Staples EZ button win-mode?


It will be in patch 3.
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #33 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 12:44pm
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How much a pure Kensei could get in PRR/MRR?
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #34 - Apr 7th, 2016 at 10:28am
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crunch wrote on Apr 2nd, 2016 at 12:01pm:
Looks like swashbuckling with hand axes and light picks gets a nice buff.


Agreed, but will it be better than just playing a Kensai now?
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #35 - Apr 7th, 2016 at 8:48pm
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My theory is that they will pump a bunch of power in Kensai after it gets a shit reception on Lamma.
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #36 - Apr 8th, 2016 at 8:53am
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Grand wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 8:48pm:
My theory is that they will pump a bunch of power in Kensai after it gets a shit reception on Lamma.


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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #37 - Apr 8th, 2016 at 9:05am
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Grand wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 8:48pm:
My theory is that they will pump a bunch of power in Kensai after it gets a shit reception on Lamma.


How much Melee power can you get on one of these without temp buffs?
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #38 - Apr 8th, 2016 at 9:35am
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Grand wrote on Apr 7th, 2016 at 8:48pm:
My theory is that they will pump a bunch of power in Kensai after it gets a shit reception on Lamma.



Most people feel it is pretty strong on DPS.  The major complaints seem to be the lack of self healing.
  
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Bigjunk
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #39 - Apr 8th, 2016 at 12:18pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 8th, 2016 at 9:35am:
Most people feel it is pretty strong on DPS.  The major complaints seem to be the lack of self healing. 


How people "feel" doesn't matter, we have methods of actually testing DPS.

That potion multiplier looks like it could be amazing with SF and other pots, Cocoon is more than enough for 99% of the content anyway.
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #40 - Apr 8th, 2016 at 1:14pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Apr 8th, 2016 at 12:18pm:
How people "feel" doesn't matter, we have methods of actually testing DPS.

That potion multiplier looks like it could be amazing with SF and other pots, Cocoon is more than enough for 99% of the content anyway.


Agreed.  At this point it is all theorybuilding.  But I don't see anything that suggests it will be underwhelming when we got to test.
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #41 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 4:11pm
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Frank wrote on Apr 3rd, 2016 at 11:43pm:
Hmmmm, I don't see it just looking at theory crafting numbers.  It's decent, but doesn't seem to be Holy Sword decent, and the lack of self heals persists.


I was just looking at DPS. Holy Sword is +1 range and +1 multi. Kensei is getting it's +1 multi to go with +1 range from Keen Edge. That alone makes them competitive. Then add +20 melee power on top of the 21% doublestrike and 30 melee power (from focus/spec feats) that they already had. I'm just ballparking here, but it looks higher than paladin DPS to me. Obviously it's not going to have the survivability of a paladin or the trash-clearing of DoD though.

It's a solid initial proposal IMO. Needs more work to impress though.
  

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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #42 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 4:27pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 4:11pm:
I was just looking at DPS. Holy Sword is +1 range and +1 multi. Kensei is getting it's +1 multi to go with +1 range from Keen Edge. That alone makes them competitive. Then add +20 melee power on top of the 21% doublestrike and 30 melee power (from focus/spec feats) that they already had. I'm just ballparking here, but it looks higher than paladin DPS to me. Obviously it's not going to have the survivability of a paladin or the trash-clearing of DoD though.

It's a solid initial proposal IMO. Needs more work to impress though.


The kotc pally gets the light damage (around 15d6 scaling with MP) and Zeal adds 10% doublestrike.  Beyond that, they might be equal or better against undead and chaotic/evil outsiders due to some enhancements.  But the Fighter does seem to have more DPS against just about every other mob type. 

The better question is how they stack against Rangers.  The strength of the combined DPS in DWS and Tempest trees is a tough one to match.  And Rangers get cure spells.  Fighters should be on par in melee DPS with a tempest ranger. 
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #43 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 4:38pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 4:27pm:
The better question is how they stack against Rangers.  The strength of the combined DPS in DWS and Tempest trees is a tough one to match.  And Rangers get cure spells.  Fighters should be on par in melee DPS with a tempest ranger. 


They won't be on par with what we've seen.

Sev's a moron, he out and out stated that kensai's the only offensive tree for fighters.   THAT'S THE PROBLEM.   It's not the tempest is OP, it's not, but tempest + 27ish AP of Deepwood and 8 Harper for KTA pushes it over.

The only thing I really see fighters having as an advantage is the to-hit and fort bypass should be good enough that leaving PA on might be the way to go whereas the ranger should be using precision at cap.
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #44 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 9:08pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 4:38pm:
Sev's a moron, he out and out stated that kensai's the only offensive tree for fighters.   THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Agreed.

Don't forget all the new defensive feats. As if the player base is itching to also waste a party slot on a dedicated healer, just to have a tank build that zero of the quests need.
  

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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #45 - Apr 12th, 2016 at 4:25am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 4:11pm:
I was just looking at DPS. Holy Sword is +1 range and +1 multi. Kensei is getting it's +1 multi to go with +1 range from Keen Edge. That alone makes them competitive. Then add +20 melee power on top of the 21% doublestrike and 30 melee power (from focus/spec feats) that they already had. I'm just ballparking here, but it looks higher than paladin DPS to me. Obviously it's not going to have the survivability of a paladin or the trash-clearing of DoD though.

It's a solid initial proposal IMO. Needs more work to impress though.


It needs more healing.

Seriously, despite the misplaced anger and angst, Fighters need more self healing.

In no other way will any DPS boost place them on the same pedestal as Paladins and Barbarians.

Unless of course the Fighter pass wipes the floor with Paladins and Barbarians.  I which case you might make a case that Fighters whip ass at a cost of self healing.  But that is never happening.
  

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Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


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Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #46 - Apr 12th, 2016 at 10:49am
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Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2016 at 4:25am:
It needs more healing.

Just personal taste here but my preference would be a slightly different take on it;

* reduce incoming dmg to the class rather than primarily increasing ability to heal through it, but
* do not do this only through lazy defense channel improvements, and
* add serious single-target and AoE CC to the Fighter's toolkit, partly through finally
* a focus on improved and meaningful combat feats

This'd sync nicely with some of the additions in the L30 update and provide a different way to add survivability (which I am assuming is what the desire to self-heal is about). Shit, even give them class-based displacement equivalent or ignore dodge limits or something.

All this is just some dickhead player's ideas, of course, I'm sure others could do better. I'd just like to see something a little more inventive from them than giving Fighters heals to put them on a level with the others. Might as well play a fast Barb or a more varied Pally if a Fighter going to play that similar, I was thinking.
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #47 - Apr 12th, 2016 at 11:20am
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Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2016 at 4:25am:
It needs more healing.

Seriously, despite the misplaced anger and angst, Fighters need more self healing.

In no other way will any DPS boost place them on the same pedestal as Paladins and Barbarians.

Unless of course the Fighter pass wipes the floor with Paladins and Barbarians.  I which case you might make a case that Fighters whip ass at a cost of self healing.  But that is never happening.


Disagree on a couple fronts:

1)  It doesn't need self healing.  If it does, it should be in the Defender tree, not Kensai.  Personally, I'd rather see them have more damage mitigation options. 

2)  They will kill Pallys in DPS.  I'm not sure what you are thinking regarding Pally DPS.  KoTC is way worse than Kensai and Holy Sword is no better than the Kensai crit boosts.  Zeal doesn't touch the Kensai Doublestrike.  Pallys aren't at the top of the DPS tree.  Rangers and Barbs are.  That's who Fighters need to compete with.  I do agree that they need more in order to compete with them, though.  I think Ranger definitely outclasses fighter on DPS and Barb probably does.

3)  I'd like to see a little more DPS and tactics.  And have tactics that are more meaningful, even against bosses.  Not stuns and trips, obv. but debuffs.
  
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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #48 - Apr 12th, 2016 at 12:04pm
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Frank wrote on Apr 12th, 2016 at 4:25am:
It needs more healing.


Make a BF Fighter.

Problem solved.
  

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Re: Proposal: Kensai Changes, Stalwart Defender tweaks
Reply #49 - Apr 12th, 2016 at 1:53pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 12th, 2016 at 11:20am:
Personally, I'd rather see them have more damage mitigation options.


Agreed. I'd like to see big PRR, MRR, DR, AC numbers instead of heals.
  

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