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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Fatty McDoublechin goes off (Read 11561 times)
Meursault
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #25 - Apr 22nd, 2016 at 10:04pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 22nd, 2016 at 5:12pm:
A lot of the things you, rightly, take exception to are institutional failures that don't pass an ITIL best practices check.  Those are management and process issues.  Turbine doesn't necessarily need better programmers.  They need a better CIO/Software Development manager who understands how to implement an SDLC system to ensure quality.

I completely agree with this, but still it feels like management contempt for players.
OldCoaly wrote on Apr 22nd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
The way Jerry and Glin referred to the Wayfinder Market bridge protest in their DDOCast

This exemplifies the management attitude. We've seen it since Fernando's time, and it persists today. Contempt is the opposite of respect, and I don't think anyone other than fanbois would say say Turbine management treats players with respect.

And if not spite, at least hubris clouds their judgement and compels them to stick to decisions clearly shown to be bad.
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #26 - Apr 22nd, 2016 at 10:44pm
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Grand wrote on Apr 22nd, 2016 at 8:26pm:
reductionist


Don't use words you don't understand.  Just because it's on your word of the day calendar doesn't mean you should use it in a sentence.
  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #27 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 3:08am
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OldCoaly wrote on Apr 22nd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
I started my IT career in '91.  As an IT professional, what Turbine does embarrasses me because their actions are intentional and they take no ownership of outcomes that are results of their choices.  I'm nauseated by the smug dismissiveness with which they brush off the value of Quality Control, version control, community relations, and on and on.

They have made clear that the rationale behind their choices is that they are the experts, their decisions are based on information that we as customers aren't capable of understanding, and they're frequently baffled by our reaction.


Yeah, everytime I see Cordovan ( or any other Turbine employee that post on the mobo ) in full Damage Control Mode I just cringe...

They have no idea of what customer relashionship is... Or they are bound by manglement rules ( typo intentional ) that just cripple said relation.
If I was relating with my customers during the investigations over an issue in their network they way they do with us... I'd just get called in my boss office for some long counselling... and to receive the order to provide timely and regular updates on the case every X hours/days.

Version control : We all know here that old is new when there's an update.... Which is proof enough that they do not have any verrsion control. Each dev makes his change in his local copy of the code, and then push the code into the build code. But nobody checks how old is the original code.

Quality control : they don't really have it anymore... I'm not even certain they still have a bug report tracking system...

I'm definitely convinced that they actually do not care about the bugs we report.
The only time I managed to get something fixed it was a String Table Error that a few of us reported through IRC at the time Steelstar was around...
For whatever reason he was not far in the code to where that error was located, so he had a look and fixed it.
It was something that had been there for ages... ( and I think it's back... because version control )

  

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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #28 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 7:57pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 22nd, 2016 at 10:44pm:
Don't use words you don't understand.  Just because it's on your word of the day calendar doesn't mean you should use it in a sentence.



Oh did I hurt the little shillboi's feels?  Wink

REDUCTIONIST: "the practice of simplifying a complex idea, issue, condition, or the like, especially to the point of minimizing, obscuring, or distorting it."




Enjoy that bag of dicks girly.
  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #29 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 8:18pm
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Grand wrote on Apr 23rd, 2016 at 7:57pm:
Oh did I hurt the little shillboi's feels?  Wink

REDUCTIONIST: "the practice of simplifying a complex idea, issue, condition, or the like, especially to the point of minimizing, obscuring, or distorting it."




Enjoy that bag of dicks girly.


Goddammit, this shit for me this saves the fucking day.
  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #30 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:01pm
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Grand wrote on Apr 23rd, 2016 at 7:57pm:
Oh did I hurt the little shillboi's feels?  Wink

REDUCTIONIST: "the practice of simplifying a complex idea, issue, condition, or the like, especially to the point of minimizing, obscuring, or distorting it."




Enjoy that bag of dicks girly.


Lol.  So you can use google.  Looks like you and KNN have even more in common than I thought.


  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #31 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:23pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 22nd, 2016 at 10:44pm:
Just because it's on your word of the day calendar doesn't mean you should use it in a sentence.

Motherfucker, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS.

Asheras wrote on Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:01pm:
Lol.  So you can use google.

I just wish you had practiced putting "contempt" into more sentences. Then you wouldn't have needed us to explain it to you.

AND IF YOU'D PRACTICED USING "REDUCTIONIST" THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED GRAND TO GOOGLE IT FOR YOU.
« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:31pm by Revaulting »  

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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #32 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 1:10am
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Revaulting wrote on Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:
Motherfucker, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS.

I just wish you had practiced putting "contempt" into more sentences. Then you wouldn't have needed us to explain it to you.

AND IF YOU'D PRACTICED USING "REDUCTIONIST" THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED GRAND TO GOOGLE IT FOR YOU.

Ooooh, that burn is going to need skin transplants!
  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #33 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 5:44am
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Asheras wrote on Apr 22nd, 2016 at 5:12pm:
I don't have much experience with video game industry programming, but the stuff they do wouldn't fly in any of the corporate information systems operations I've been in in banking, finance, accounting, sales force automation, and CRM.  It feels like the video game industry values creativity and innovation in development over process and structure.  And I get that video game development requires more of that than other vertical markets, like say banking.  But that doesn't mean you can completely ignore IT best practices.


I like to contemplate how funny it would be if Turdbine were operating in those other industries.
Developing software for the automotive industry - imagine if they provided the software for Tesla vehicles?
Imagine your next MRI or X-ray under a Turdbine powered machine?
The city traffic management system?  Your online banking portal?
It'd be so screwed that they wouldn't last a week before being litigated to oblivion.

Video game development has become a special snowflake held to abysmally low standards such that they can foist any fecal like software product onto their customers who have absolutely no rights apparently.
"Yeah but it's just a game..."
Actually it is a product that they sell - whether that be subs or store purchases.  The freemium version of the game is a service they offer - in the hopes of product sales.
I think that makes them just as accountable as anyone else selling"stuff".

There is a fine line between "powered by our fans" and "smeared all over the fan", and we get plenty of the latter.
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2016 at 5:45am by DropBear »  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #34 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 12:15pm
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DropBear wrote on Apr 24th, 2016 at 5:44am:
I like to contemplate how funny it would be if Turdbine were operating in those other industries.

It wouldn't be funny, Bear, people would die.

As much as I'd like to see Turbine punished for the crimes it's committed against a great IP, I don't want any of them fired because then they might try to find work in an industry where their actions affected more than just the leisure time of a few thousand gamers. We're keeping society safe by keeping them busy here.
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #35 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 2:27pm
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DropBear wrote on Apr 24th, 2016 at 5:44am:
I like to contemplate how funny it would be if Turdbine were operating in those other industries.
Developing software for the automotive industry - imagine if they provided the software for Tesla vehicles?
Imagine your next MRI or X-ray under a Turdbine powered machine?
The city traffic management system?  Your online banking portal?
It'd be so screwed that they wouldn't last a week before being litigated to oblivion.

Video game development has become a special snowflake held to abysmally low standards such that they can foist any fecal like software product onto their customers who have absolutely no rights apparently.
"Yeah but it's just a game..."
Actually it is a product that they sell - whether that be subs or store purchases.  The freemium version of the game is a service they offer - in the hopes of product sales.
I think that makes them just as accountable as anyone else selling"stuff".

There is a fine line between "powered by our fans" and "smeared all over the fan", and we get plenty of the latter.


You see the same issues in other entertainment or marketing arenas where technology blends with traditionally highly creative areas.  Creativity and structure seem to be mutually exclusive to some degree.  Which is why you need to mix highly creative people with strong process and structure people, like PM's to keep things in control while allowing the creative people the freedom to create unique content/ideas.



  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #36 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 3:18pm
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DropBear wrote on Apr 24th, 2016 at 5:44am:
Video game development has become a special snowflake held to abysmally low standards such that they can foist any fecal like software product onto their customers who have absolutely no rights apparently.



Don't worry it's spreading... and it's not just Video Games... it's the whole computer industry... where good enough means it somewhat more or less do what it's been designed to do... most of the time.

The problem is that that kind of mentality is spreading over to whole segments of the industry... As long as it does more or less what it's supposed to do... most of the time... it's ok...

Yuck...


It should do it perfectly each and every time... and any result that is not exactly what is expected is a malfunction and/or a defect.

  

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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #37 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 7:34pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 24th, 2016 at 2:27pm:
~Burn victim clearly avoiding any more posts directed at Grand or Grand's vocabulary~






Nice to see that even a shill like you knows when discretion is the better part of valor.....


Say, do you need me to google the word discretion for you as well?
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2016 at 7:35pm by Grand »  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #38 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 9:15pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 24th, 2016 at 2:27pm:
You see the same issues in other entertainment or marketing arenas where technology blends with traditionally highly creative areas.  Creativity and structure seem to be mutually exclusive to some degree.  Which is why you need to mix highly creative people with strong process and structure people, like PM's to keep things in control while allowing the creative people the freedom to create unique content/ideas.


I very much agree with this.  DDO could potentially be turned around if they stopped the incestuous promotion policy and brought in a competent professional.  Sadly, I suspect the problem is deeper than just incompetent producers, but goes to orgn priorities, budget and resourcing.

Other orgns harness creative people, but still manage to run a business.
The danger in the games industry is if you have those creative types promoted to management type roles, without having any business sense.   These roles are certainly not suited to everyone who's done their time on the front line of game development.

You don't want overly creative or overly controlling people who don't understand the nuance and balance required. Project mgmt is always about trade-offs.  You can never have everything.

Turdbine is a good example of these polarised elements.
Most of their producers appear to be in the "creative bucket" (being charitable here - I would normally say incompetent and unprofessional) in that good IT/IS practice is not utilised or heeded.
On the other hand, you have the douchebag operating with impunity throughout the orgn treating customers with complete disdain (instead of respect).

I think gaming industry customers are characterised as negative, when I would describe many as passionate (although they are diverse), and if you can harness that, you will find a very loyal customer base even if they don't agree with everything you do (and they won't). 
Here's a tip for Turdbine. Dismissing, ignoring and mocking them is never going to put you on a winning footing.    Wink
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2016 at 9:15pm by DropBear »  
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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #39 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 9:45pm
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Asheras wrote on Apr 24th, 2016 at 2:27pm:
You see the same issues in other entertainment or marketing arenas where technology blends with traditionally highly creative areas.  Creativity and structure seem to be mutually exclusive to some degree.  Which is why you need to mix highly creative people with strong process and structure people, like PM's to keep things in control while allowing the creative people the freedom to create unique content/ideas.

I agree, but I think many companies run into problems striking the balance. The best organizers are creative, themselves. The rest suffer a critical inability to understand creative process, thinking that what works for them will work for anyone. They stifle and choke when they think they're nurturing and feeding.

This is still not Turbine's problem. Turbine's problem is


Turbine has no fucking organization but also no fucking creativity. They gave all that up once convinced them to treat their customers like addicts.

You're not wrong, but you're advising swimming lessons to a quintuple amputee.
  

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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #40 - Apr 25th, 2016 at 11:01am
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Asheras wrote on Apr 22nd, 2016 at 5:12pm:
In looking at the above definition, I'd agree that Turbine is often inconsiderate of their customers.  Whether in the form of poor communication/lack of communication or in the form of changes that are poorly thought out. 

I think where we differ in the definition [of contempt] above is the attribution of that lack of consideration to them thinking customers are worthless or deserving scorn. 

I'd argue it is more due to ineptness of individuals and organizational chaos and lack of structure.


I disagree.

Make no mistake, I believe that the folks at DDO are inept, and this lack of skill is evident in the details of their execution, but the strategy of their customer treatment and game management is deliberate and intentional.

Turbine gives their customers the amount of consideration and respect that Turbine feels the customers deserve.

Further, management maintains the level of skill in their employees that they feel their customers and the game deserve.  They could get an objectively better community relations "manager" than Jerry, but they don't because he's "good enough".  Similarly, Jerry and Sev and the rest could work to better understand the game and player experience and become a better player, but they do not because they are sure that they are already "good enough".

Their clumsy and skill-less execution is a symptom of their culture of "fuck it, that's good enough for who it's for". 


It's not "oops" the tenth time, and it's certainly not "oops" the hundredth time.  What it is is a display of the value (or "worth") they place upon their customers.



Asheras, I don't believe you're a shill or an apologist or a fanboi.

I do, however, think you're unreasonably optimistic.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Fatty McDoublechin goes off
Reply #41 - Apr 25th, 2016 at 1:25pm
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OldCoaly wrote on Apr 25th, 2016 at 11:01am:
Asheras, I don't believe you're a shill or an apologist or a fanboi.

I do, however, think you're unreasonably optimistic.


To be optimistic, I'd have to be positive about the direction of the game.  Far from it.  I am frustrated by the lag and lack of communication and the exodus of players as a result.  I am frustrated by lag and LGS and legendary systems and the lack of content and recent content mechanics and the new loot gen system and their failure to get the balance pass completed in anything approaching a reasonable period of time (just to name a few issues).  I'm pretty disappointed that a game I enjoy playing has not been enjoyable for the last 6 weeks and that has probably had a large impact on revenue, which is not good for the game. 

I suspect we agree to a large degree on the in game problems and the frustration.  We just disagree on how much of this is systemic process problems and poor management vs. actual contempt and scorn.  The solution is the same in either case. 



  
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