noamineo wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 2:01pm:

Your imagination is limited.

Try this:
1) Reset everyone's skill back to 0/0/0
2) Eliminate lesser/greater essences and implement a different set of mats
3) Make it take 10x as long standing at a crafting interface to get your skill to move
4) Set recipes so that they are less than what new loot gen can provide.  Hey, can't be making the New Way obsolete so soon, now can we???  Someone did about 4 hours of work on that, they need the resume fodder!
5) Exclude all the things people actually want to make.  Vampirism, skills, etc.  Leave in all the crap effects you can get a duplicate of anywhere at all instead.
6) Push it off another 3+ updates and never make any kind of commitment to actually implement anything at all

I probably missed a good half dozen ways they can and probably will fuck things up, but there's my short list.

Frank wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 8:59pm:


The first 2 are the ones I'm really afraid of. That would be enough for me to break the addiction and quit for good.

Frank wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 8:59pm:



Ugh... yeah, my imagination IS limited

ZooperDooper wrote on May 2^nd, 2016 at 9:15pm:

I think he means one that slides down a mountain made of shit instead of a mountain covered in snow. As in "you rode a shit toboggan down paycheck mountain.", perhaps the best description of MOTU ever offered.

noamineo wrote on May 4^th, 2016 at 11:08am:

Well, compared to Shadowfell, MOTU is fantastic. But when it first came out it was, surprise surprise, released too soon and horribly buggy.

As to "shit toboggan", is an ice boat made out of ice? No, you use it on ice. Are water skis made out of water? No, you use them on water. Did your parents traumatize you by giving you a box full of dirt and telling you it was a dirt bike? Hopefully not, but you're here on The Vault, so maybe.

And if that doesn't have your left eye twitching, I have one more for you. Turbine has decided that Risia Ice Games have been over-performing, so next year they are replacing them with a new special event, the Needham Shit Games, where you earn favors by standing at the edge of the Shit Toboggan Slalom Course and try to high-five devs as they ride by. This was so important that they announced it in code - watch CordoStain's twitch stream (a veritable shit mountain in its own right) and take the 12th letter (spaces count) of every sentence he speaks, then arrange them in reverse order to get the announcement. If it doesn't work for you the first time, try again and pay closer attention - you have to include his expletives when he gets ganked by kobolds 

Seriously, what is this obsession you people have with Shit Toboggans?! It's just a figure of speech, you don't have to figure out how they are made.

Revaulting wrote on May 4^th, 2016 at 12:00pm:

Look, it's not even my metaphor, it's from one of the banner quotes, OK? I have absolutely no ownership stake in this. You can call it anything you like, really!

Revaulting wrote on May 4^th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

Wait a minute, it's your friggin' quote!

Revaulting wrote on Feb 5^th, 2015 at 9:44am:


Don't make insert a clip of the knights who say "Soggy Biscuit" 

Uhm.. why do we even need this update for crafting? The one and only thing we need right now is to fix this lag....

they should dedicate one entire update to fixing lag and doing some qol stuffs...

lag should be the #1 priority not some lame outdate crafting system that everyone has already maxxed out...

can't even run a doj these days with 11 people.... wth

klajsdhd wrote on May 4^th, 2016 at 4:47pm:

That's crazy talk! How does "fixed lag" look on anybody's resume? Or "stopped spells from missing"? Future employers want "introduced new crafting system" or "designed 4 new holiday events". They don't want boring crap.

So stop with your selfish requests that benefit the few thousand remaining players, and think of the poor producer, the poor devs, who have futures beyond DDO to think about. Nobody is going to pluck them from the boredom of DDO to work on shiny new mobile games if all they can do is fix somebody else's mistakes 

Revaulting wrote on May 4^th, 2016 at 7:15pm:



I think your consciousness exists in a parallel universe...

Revaulting wrote on May 4^th, 2016 at 11:38pm:


I have never heard that metaphor before.
I consider myself edumacated!!

klajsdhd wrote on May 4^th, 2016 at 4:47pm:


The qol update was the last update where they "supposedly" focused on many bugs.

Frank wrote on May 6^th, 2016 at 3:21am:


This is a contentious issue.  Here is the problem:

Old Loot Scale:

Crafted Raid Loot > Raid Loot > Named Loot > Crannith Crafting > Ran Loot Gen.  (Crafted raid loot would be greensteel, enhanced CiTW Weapons, TF)

In this scenario, the Random Loot and CC Loot used an ML system where the ML was determined by the effects.  You want Str 6?  ML 13.  You want to put Something else on there? Say Haggle +3?  ML 15.  So the two were in sync.  Equal loot at equal level.  Crafting was "more powerful" because you could get the effects you want at the ML you want in the slot you want.  That control has value.  And though the items were no more or less powerful, the ability of crafting overall was more powerful.  But each item could have at max 2 effects.  Same as loot gen.  Slots and metal properties were outside the system.

New Loot Scale: (without Cannith Crafting)

Crafted Raid Loot (at level) > Raid Loot > Perfect Ran Loot Gen > LGS > Rare to very rare Ran Loot Gen > Named Loot > Typical to Good Ran Loot Gen.

The problem is that the new RLG (Ran loot gen) is no longer fixed in power.  An ML 30 item can have 2 or 3 effects.  Randomly.  The items with 3 are better than 2.  Each effect can have a range as well, and not change the ML.  Stat can be 12-16 at ML 30, for example.  So you can get an ML 30 Str +12, Con +12, Insight Str +5 item at level 30. (even this item is very rare.  Getting 3 effects that are complimentary is not easy.  And this is still a VERY GOOD ITEM)  Or, you can get ML 30 Str +16, Con +16, Insight Str +7.  These two items are vastly different in power.  But come at the same ML. 

In the past with RLG, all you had to worry about was getting the effects you wanted at the ML.  The values would not change.  So CC was better because it controlled the one random aspect.  But that control never threatened Named Loot or Raid Loot, because they usually had 3-4 (or more) effects and would win on density, if nothing else. 

Now you have to get the effects you want at the ML you want and the stat values you want.  And an item with 3 of the exact effects you want all at max value in the slot you want is not only very rare, but is more powerful than most (if not all) named loot and some raid loot.  Certainly, a +16 Int, +7 Insight Int, +16 Char (or Con) item would be better than an LGS +15 Int, +7 Int, +2 Int caster stick.  Certainly CC loot will continue to have the ability to get effects you want at the ML you want.  So you will still have the advantage of picking the effects, getting 3 per item, and getting them in the slot you want at the ML you want.  Thus CC will have significant power and advantage over RLG.  But, what will the values be for the effects?  Can you let CC loot create perfect (3 maxxed stat items)?  Is that good for loot/game balance?  Theoretically RLG can give you that item.  But does one actually exist in game today?  New RLG has been out for 4 months.  There have been hundreds of millions of chest pulls in that time.  Has a single perfect item been seen? 

Can you give every crafter the ability to pump these out at will?   Or does giving Crafting that ability make it mandatory for every player who wants to have optimal loot configurations?  Does that invalidate RLG completely?

I think this is the challenge.  The other factor is what is required to craft a "perfect" item.  It is one thing to say "you can craft perfect items"  the same as it is easy to say RLG can "get a perfect item".  The reality of RLG is that it is possible to get a perfect item, but you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning while winning the mega millions.  If you can craft a perfect item daily or weekly, that is probably a problem.  If you would need to gather so many ingredients that it would take months or years to craft a "perfect" item ( but in the meantime could craft +15 Str, +6 Insight Str, +14 Con ML 30 items and the like) , that is a different discussion. 

So what to allow and how difficult the best items are to make is a real challenge.  The range of stat values in RLG at each level and the addition of the 3rd effect has altered the power equation in RLG - Named - Raid Loot.  But the overwhelmingly bad odds of getting the best RLG makes it a non-issue in real game terms.  Crafting, however, removes that random odds check and balance.  So what to do?  Don't let people craft the perfect item or just use the ingredients grind to make it really freaking hard and take a really long time?