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What has this game come too? (Read 5002 times)

zoriaan Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 105 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2016	What has this game come too? Sep 14^th, 2016 at 6:19am	Print Post
	https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/478637-100-Runs-of-Slavers-to-create-O... So now people don't want to farm anymore? They just want fully upgraded items handed to them on a plate...


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #1 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 6:39am	Print Post
	nah, I want to dick around for 12 hours straight to make 1 item.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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zoriaan Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 105 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2016	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #2 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:04am	Print Post
	Oh come on...the grind is not that bad...I think in 3 runs through the new pack i have about 130-150 of each of the unbound mats and about 20 of each of the bound ones... So maybe 10 runs you can have enough to fully upgrade an item? I think that is reasonable... Think back to Shroud when 20 were requited with no bypasses to cleanse a single item...nobody seemed to complain then...


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Alex DeLarge Epic Poster Offline Get ready for some of the 'ol in-out, in-out Posts: 3481 Location: Foggy Albion Joined: May 11^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #3 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:07am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 6:39am: nah, I want to dick around for 12 hours straight to make 1 item.� He's a sock of you know who. Trying to be different by positive reinforcement trolling


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nowAvaultie Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 178 Joined: May 20^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #4 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:08am	Print Post
	zoriaan wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:04am: Think back to Shroud when 20 were requited with no bypasses to cleanse a single item...nobody seemed to complain then... Plenty of people were complaining. Apparently, no one in your static group, though.

	OldCoaly wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 11:27am: If one of those types of weapons isn't "wraps", then it's a non-starter for Fran.
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Meursault Horoluth Raider Offline I Love Freedom of Speech Posts: 2410 Location: Hartford, CT; USA Joined: Aug 22^nd, 2013 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #5 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 8:11am	Print Post
	Alex DeLarge wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:07am: He's a sock of you know who. Trying to be different by positive reinforcement trolling Doh! That explains much, thanks for the info.

	Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #6 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 10:29am	Print Post
	zoriaan wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:04am: Think back to Shroud when 20 were requited with no bypasses to cleanse a single item...nobody seemed to complain then... Because you have shit for memory. Then again, when you added together all the hours of grind that exist in this game, you didn't used to end up with something older than you are.

	Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #7 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 10:31am	Print Post
	Alex DeLarge wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:07am: He's a sock of you know who. Trying to be different by positive reinforcement trolling It's working!

	Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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no. DQ Assaulter Offline Just no. Posts: 454 Joined: Oct 10^th, 2013	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #8 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 10:48am	Print Post
	Instructions not clear. Foot caught in pi�ata.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #9 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 10:56am	Print Post
	There is a middle ground. A) You can't compare raid grind to non-raid grind. Non-raid grind should be lesser. This might not feel like that because it is the new content and the more powerful feature set. I get that. But, relatively speaking, the power of a Supreme Tyrant Shroud item in 2008 is much greater than these items from here. The grind should be commensurate. B) You have to consider the time to complete the run as well as the number of runs required. If a a run is 15 minutes or less, 100 runs is nothing. If a run can be completed in 30 minutes, 100 runs is grind, but not too bad. If, however, each run requires 60 or 90 minutes to complete, now you are talking about a heavy grind. I think the length of time per run is what is causing the frustration with the number of runs required. C) You can't compare the pre-raid timer, pre TR/ETR era with the current era of the game. Nobody playing today has the stomach for the kid of challenge that players used to enjoy. Taking months to solve a raid on Elite. Get real. If you can't solve it on Elite within the first week, people will bitch and moan. (Also, they won't look for solutions. They will just start using consumables like mad to overpower it. And then complain about the resource requirements as being absurd and unfair to the non-power gamers). It's not fair to say that people who are unhappy with a heavy grind are "wanting something for nothing". But I think that, given the length of the content to complete runs, it would make sense to see the number of runs required be dropped down from 100(ish) to 50 or 60 (ish). Doing that takes the time investment down, but still makes it challenging.


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Frank Puppy Farmer Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1429 Joined: Jan 14^th, 2016	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #10 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 11:39am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 6:39am: nah, I want to dick around for 12 hours straight to make 1 item.� But, neck/belt or wrist/feet or trinket/ring slot on the same item! Such a bold, new, fresh loot concept that our minds are blown! I'm almost surprised that when you equip it to the neck that it doesn't unequip your belt also. Because that would have been exactly how Turbine would fuck that up. But they managed to just make a mindless grind that people will run once on elite and then loaf through on normal/hard for the custom items.

	No, let me be Frank. Digimonk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 12:39pm: I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive. Smart players know how to use buyback. Digimonk wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 1:58pm: I will not chone. I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect. Smart people don't elicit "side effects."� They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Tspoon Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 396 Joined: Aug 30^th, 2013	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #11 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 12:40pm	Print Post
	I only got to parts 1 and 2 but wow, they go on and on... Overall, I thought they were pretty good and grinding for the best loot is how an MMO works, but the overall length of these quests is going to increase the difficulty of getting people to run it, or even soloing it due to the time commitment for even completing a single part... I wasn't around when TOEE was released, but it strikes me as very similar and I've been back 4 months or so, and I have still only run it once and that was heroic at level... I very rarely see and LFM for it, heroic or legendary. Slavers is going to be the same, I suspect. It'll get run for the next few weeks, the powergamers will get their toys and then it will sit there unless someone figures out a way to invis past large chunks and cut the completion time to less than half....


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kum-gulp VoD Slasher Offline I Love Tired Vault Memes! Posts: 1811 Joined: Jul 16^th, 2010	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #12 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 1:00pm	Print Post
	zoriaan wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 6:19am: They just want fully upgraded items handed to them on a plate... Oh ok, go on then, seeing as you mention it.


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Mr Titan Demolisher Offline Posts: 361 Joined: Apr 20^th, 2011	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #13 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 2:39pm	Print Post
	zoriaan wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:04am: Oh come on...the grind is not that bad...I think in 3 runs through the new pack i have about 130-150 of each of the unbound mats and about 20 of each of the bound ones... So maybe 10 runs you can have enough to fully upgrade an item? I think that is reasonable... Think back to Shroud when 20 were requited with no bypasses to cleanse a single item...nobody seemed to complain then... WRONG A "fully upgraded item" takes 2400 of the collectables. 700 of each of the "more common" items = 2100 100 of each of the "less common" items = 300 This is a HUGE grind Tell me how the grind "is not that bad" AFTER you have a FULLY upgraded item.


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Steelstar Ex Member	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #14 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 2:44pm	Print Post
	zoriaan wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 6:19am: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/478637-100-Runs-of-Slavers-to-create-O... So now people don't want to farm anymore? They just want fully upgraded items handed to them on a plate... Facetious generalization, well of the mark.� zoriaan wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:04am: Oh come on...the grind is not that bad...I think in 3 runs through the new pack i have about 130-150 of each of the unbound mats and about 20 of each of the bound ones... So maybe 10 runs you can have enough to fully upgrade an item? I think that is reasonable... Think back to Shroud when 20 were requited with no bypasses to cleanse a single item...nobody seemed to complain then... Additional bunk.� In your defense I doubt that you actually feel that way, but are attempting to establish your own space in the Vault as a going against the tide personality. Is there any chance you could do it in the other threads instead of the DDO-specific?
	« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2016 at 2:47pm by »

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noamineo Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline All men fear time, but time fears the pyramids Posts: 9015 Location: Titan Joined: Jul 2^nd, 2014	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #15 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 3:16pm	Print Post
	zoriaan wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:04am: Think back to Shroud when 20 were requited with no bypasses to cleanse a single item...nobody seemed to complain then... 20 was a good number. But it was also a solid number. Slavers can be a lot more variable than that.

	I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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somenewnoob Abbot Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 751 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2016	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #16 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:21pm	Print Post
	Difference was back then heroic greensteel was great even at cap. (20) And they didn't roll out something better than heroic greensteel every other update to invalidate the grind for it. So it was worth it to grind for gear that you used for almost half your leveling and for end game. Now.......do you really think this stuff will be worth a damn 2 updates from now? At the rate they are going?

	Grab life by the pussy.
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zoriaan Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 105 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2016	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #17 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:27pm	Print Post
	somenewnoob wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:21pm: And they didn't roll out something better than heroic greensteel every other update to invalidate the grind for it. Good point...This does seem to be a problem lately...once you get the latest shiny it is null and void an update or two later...


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Technomage Epic Poster Offline And so it begins... Posts: 4444 Location: Tucson, AZ Joined: Aug 27^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #18 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:32pm	Print Post
	Mr wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 2:39pm: WRONG A "fully upgraded item" takes 2400 of the collectables. 700 of each of the "more common" items = 2100 100 of each of the "less common" items = 300 This is a HUGE grind Tell me how the grind "is not that bad" AFTER you have a FULLY upgraded item. I ran the chain on LH last night with a couple of guildies. After seeing the drop rate on LH and figuring it might be twice that on LE, I decided the grind would be way too much. The only reason why I'll run the three quests now are for the named items in the end chest (I only need a few, though). I'll keep the ingredients but only just in case a new duplicating method arises. I have ZERO interest in running these new quests hundreds of times.
	« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:34pm by Technomage »
	Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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zoriaan Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 105 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2016	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #19 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:40pm	Print Post
	Mr wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 2:39pm: This is a HUGE grind OK even if it is a huge grind, what else is there to do...if not this then the TR train or whatnot...this entire game is a "grind" no matter which way you look at it no?
	« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:41pm by zoriaan »

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AtomicMew Horoluth Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 2073 Joined: Jan 12^th, 2011	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #20 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 5:01pm	Print Post
	So how long would it take to grind out three fully upgraded items?


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #21 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 5:18pm	Print Post
	AtomicMew wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 5:01pm: So how long would it take to grind out three fully upgraded items?� at least 30 runs of the chain

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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PersonaNonGrata Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1063 Joined: May 3^rd, 2015	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #22 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 6:45pm	Print Post
	zoriaan wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:40pm: OK even if it is a huge grind, what else is there to do... To answer your question - plenty outside DDO. If a game is not compelling and enjoyable, why play it? There are plenty of other games and RL things to do. MMO's do mean grind and we accept that - part of the aspirational targets and psych hooks. But when it becomes "dick in pencil sharpener" grind for the individual, it's best to go do something else. Smart MMO companies are aware of this and try to balance grind-challenge-rewards to keep you hooked. Turbine hasn't got a fucking clue and their idea of grind is putting Sev's sandpaper covered micro dick up your ass using sand as a lubricant.


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Meursault Horoluth Raider Offline I Love Freedom of Speech Posts: 2410 Location: Hartford, CT; USA Joined: Aug 22^nd, 2013 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #23 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 7:10pm	Print Post
	somenewnoob wrote on Sep 14^th, 2016 at 4:21pm: And they didn't roll out something better than heroic greensteel every other update to invalidate the grind for it. Exactly this. I have no incentive to grind this stuff out, as a casual player (made even more casual by disgust with the state of the game) by the time I finish grinding it it would be passe anyway. I'm mostly over it, as PNG said there are plenty of things to do elsewhere, but it would be nice if I thought the devs were at least bright enough to realize people don't send money to games they are mostly over.

	Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Vaultaccount Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 624 Joined: Apr 29^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: What has this game come too? Reply #24 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 9:01pm	Print Post
	The content was enjoyable. Now it isn't. It feels like grind. that's the problem. You need grind that doesn't feel like it. That's how they made us run DQ, Abbot and ToD 80 times. And, of course, the items would be useful for years. Look what happened in the last updates: U29 invalidated most of DoJ loot, Sightless is the only I can think about that lasted a bit longer U31 invalidated most of U29 loot and Sightless (DoJ dies) U32 invalidated everything else, except a few pieces of LGS for specific builds


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