Asheras wrote on Sep 18^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

30 mins of boring, repetitive recycling of instances just to get enough collectibles to craft one effect on one item.  How many of those 30 minute cycles are you willing to do each day to craft items for guildies and to help newbies with some low and mid level heroic crafted gear each day?

...Yeah, that's a great f'ing way to make sure people don't get burned out on the game and crafting in particular...

Let's review.

OldCoaly wrote on Sep 18^th, 2016 at 8:19am:

Asheras wrote on Sep 18^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

My point: It doesn't fucking matter how easy/hard it is to farm the new collectables. Your "But ..." starts some tangent that does nothing to alleviate the fucking problem.

The game is bloated to the point where finally, monsieur, a wafer-thin mint will make it explode, if that wafer is a collectible.

Revaulting wrote on Sep 19^th, 2016 at 2:51am:


Let's be clear.  The new collectibles are only used in Insightful effects shards and two non-insightful shards - Protection and Spell Lore (Generic spell crit - The school specific spell crits don't require new collectibles) for the scaling effects. 

So, you could make (out of the box, no leveling grind, using existing collectibles) Bound ML 28 - Str 12, Con 12, sheltering 32 bracers.

Or Bound ML 28 Goggles - Int 12 (or Seeker 12), Deadly 10(or Melee/Ranged Alacrity 15%), Assassinate 6.  All with ings that have been around for years (and duped). 

After 30 minutes(didn't even expire a single 75% XP pot for 25 TP) of leveling grind to 340 (using only essences, no collectibles ingredients) those bracers can be ML 30 - Str 15, Con 15, Sheltering 38.  The goggles are Int 15 (or Seeker 15), Deadly 12 (Alacrity 15%), Assassinate 7.  (using only existing collectibles)

I agree with you that new collectibles are not what I would have wanted either.  I would have preferred using existing collectibles for all recipes.  I get why they did it, but I would have rather they didn't.   I also don't like that the recipes require 15 of the common collectible and 1,2, or 5 of the uncommon for the bound shards.  That common collectible price is too high, especially for low ML items.  The unbounds are just way too expensive.  30 commons? 10 uncommons? and 2 (sometimes 5) rares?  Plus the PEDs?  That's way too much.  Especially for anything with an ML lower than 25, imo.  This is where the bitching should be, imo.  This is what I'd like to see changed.   

   

Digimonk wrote on Sep 19^th, 2016 at 1:09pm:


You only need common and uncommon components to craft the insightful bounds. 

You don't have 15 ancient texts and 5 hairy trumpet mushrooms after 5 LE runs?  That seems like bad luck.  You are getting a lot of something else.  But those quests are great for ancient texts and hairy trumpet mushrooms.  Because those come most from bookcases, backpacks, and cabinets.  The fungus ones are in shorter supply in slavers.

I have no problem with an ML 34 Insightful shard requiring 15 and 5 of those.  I don't think we should be able to craft this powerful of loot at the drop of a hat.  There needs to be some gating.  But, to spend 15 and 5 on an ML 5 or ML 10 insightful Con shard?  That's nuts.  The lack of scaling is my concern. 

You expect to be able to make the best new shards at end game power levels the first week with minimal effort.  Or else it's not fun.  I'm not down with that concept, but there are parts I agree with.

Asheras wrote on Sep 19^th, 2016 at 9:27am:

Why are you giving me a different version of the same non-argument?

Just as it makes no difference how easy/hard they are to collect, it doesn't fucking matter to Mr. Creosote what he can do with a bunch of wafer thin mints.



Asheras wrote on Sep 19^th, 2016 at 1:57pm:

I'll tell you why this argument is infuriating. It calls the years of playing I've done "the drop of a hat".

Turbine is a Monty Hall Dungeon Master. They are currently enacting the Monty Hall solution to the Monty Hall problem they created: Take away all the carrots (invalidate old loot; invent more ingredients; allow zero trade-in between old and new), so they can dangle more carrots. Only in this case, the carrots are Turbine's Hairy Trumpets.

The Monty Hall solution is infuriating. Shortly following, it's demoralizing and discouraging. Nobody wants to keep playing. Monty Hall DMs come up with reason after reason why it's "not that bad", but all of them serve to perpetuate the cycle instead of replace it with storyline, plot, character development, etc.

Revaulting wrote on Sep 19^th, 2016 at 8:18pm:


There is storyline and plot.  The first time you play thru content.  But, let's be honest, that only creates about 100-200 hours of game play.  After that, there are two options MMO's have to keep you playing:

A) Incremental grind for more power in the form of character progression (i.e. XP grind) and loot grind.

B) Re-running the story with a different character (alts) to see how that plays differently and has different features.

The loot grind process is where cannith crafting fits in the puzzle.  Hence, when they add new abilities to the mix (insightful effects crafting) they make you get new ingredients to gain the new loot. 

However, that doesn't mean they invalidated any of the existing collectibles.  All your old ingredients(collectibles) are still used in recipes. Look at the list.  You still need every one of the things you gathered or duped.  And with them, you can make the stuff you could make before the update.  (and at much more powerful levels).  You want a strength +15 Con +15 ML 30 belt?  You need 0 new ingredients that you didn't have before the update.  You just gained the ability to make a much more powerful item than you ever could before and didn't need grind a single ingredient to do it, most likely.  The majority of end gamers could make stuff like that within 30 minutes of the update going live.

But, you want to be able to make an ML 34 item with Insightful Con +7 on it?  Something you couldn't do before the update?  Then get the required ingredients that are a part of the update.  That's how it worked with Shroud crafting.  That's how it works with slavers crafting.  That's how it works with the new stuff in cannith crafting.  That's how it ALWAYS works.

All MMO's make you do the same exact shit.  They invalidate old loot with expansions and level cap raises and new grinds.  It's how the MMO game model works.  If you want to play one off games like Dragon Age Origins, then do that.  You don't have this problem in one off games.  But for as long as you have been playing this MMO, to let this "infuriate" you and upset you makes no sense.  You know how it works.  Why do you expect anything different this time around? 

You want to bitch about the relative costs of some items?  That makes some sense to me.  I don't get why Turbine made Unbounds so freaking expensive.  And made a shard cost the exact same regardless of whether it is an ML 1 +1 or an ML 34  +15.  Those things seem counter productive and remove previously existing uses for cannith crafting.  But to complain because you gotta get some new stuff to do some new stuff?  I'm not in agreement with you on that.  Maybe we need to agree to disagree.  That's fine.  TC Revaulting.  I've said my peace on this topic. 

Asheras wrote on Sep 18^th, 2016 at 11:07pm:

Thanks, the TotT is a good solution for me, I like to blow off steam after a hard day with an EN DA, so I can get family members to pike with me and pass their tokens.

Revaulting wrote on Sep 19^th, 2016 at 10:51pm:

I agree with this. Turbine excusing this level of grind and collectibles because some grind is necessary is like firebombing your car because some engine heat is necessary for lubricant to flow. Yes, some is necessary, but they blew past it years ago now. The population death spiral is proof.

Maybe the new crafting is better than the old, but it's not enough better in some ways that really matter. They made some great improvements but they got sucked back into the old broken paradigm.

Revaulting wrote on Sep 19^th, 2016 at 11:50pm:

Turbine doesn't want to believe they aren't simply fabulous at what they do, so they will dismiss complaints no matter what. When you're a rock star, any criticism directed at you is just jealousy.

It's hard to improve when you can't admit anything is wrong.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 20^th, 2016 at 1:01am:


In the same sense as Nickleback.

On topic:  Yes, the switchover from 24 essence types to 1 essence type + 23 new collectibles was stupid.  Along with Runearms and properly updating the Cannith Challenge Gear.  But, I am actually crafting items again, so I have a lot of trouble labeling this update a “fail”.

Revaulting wrote on Sep 20^th, 2016 at 8:00am:


It's a fail because New Vampirism is no longer on-hit and has an inner cooldown.

I think people are being ridiculous... Ive done a bit of crafting, and made sets of equip for my level/PL binges that are utterly superior to virtually anything I could access before. I've also noticed all the people who pissed and moaned about water breathing and feather fall  shut up when they found out it is available @ lvl 1. I'm liking everything so far, but then again, only been toodling with Heroics. Eventually I'll get to making uber gear for my caps..

What I would like to see is a posting which shows what items from Cannith Challenges look like thru the upgrade stages. All my heroics went ML0, but stayed BtC, and all my Epics stayed BtC.. kinda bummed about that.