Revaulting wrote on Sep 19
th, 2016 at 10:51pm:
I disagree with your opinion almost wholeheartedly, but I see the reasoning, and it makes sense. I don't want to pick at it. That would serve no purpose.
We're not disagreeing over the basic facts. You're stating this as if the past is valid reason to continue, and ... often times that's true. I'm saying it's not true for DDO. There is a saturation point, and DDO has reached it. Whether or not Turbine should keep adding more ingredients, collectibles, and stand-alone crafting systems really depends on whether or not you think DDO has reached the saturation point for these things.
Instead, I'd like to offer that your opinion is not air-tight, by which I mean it is the balance between item/xp grind and story, plot, etc. that produces longevity. But moreover, I'd like to re-stress that whatever your opinion is on the necessity of "some sort of grind", once again, it's not even a contention in my argument.
The difference of opinions over whether DDO has reached a saturation point might explain why we've seemed to be yelling past each other.
To me, because I believe DDO is past its saturation point for unconnected stand-alone crafting systems and their attendant tiny bits of shit, Turbine is continuing an unbalanced, Monty Hall extreme, and excusing it on the grounds that "some sort of grind" is necessary. And now you do too.
I agree that "some sort of grind" is necessary. But I really think more attention the details of that grind is in order. I'm not arguing that all collectibles should be removed, or all ingredients be invalidated at the sweep of an "oops, Mabar'd". I'm arguing that it is precisely the sort of grind that matters. If you, but more importantly Turbine, leaves it as "some", the unbalanced Monty Hall extreme will be hand-waved and persist. Hand-waving prevents a sustainable alternative from even being entertained.
Don't get me wrong. I agree with the issue of saturation and the feeling of too many old ingredients crowding up the bags or banks is a problem. As a player, I would love for them to implement more turn-ins/swaps/barters like what they did for sands scrolls. That should be expanded to all seals/shards/scrolls in the game. And I think it would make all that content more valuable and replayable. I think that Comms of Heroism should have more uses than just upgrading CiTW weapons and eGH armors. It would make FoT and CiTW more worthwhile to run.
I would love for them to find uses for LoB mats beyond that individual system. Something that makes those two raids worth running again. Both are fun, and challenging on EE in low epics.
I get that they can't go back and revamp CC loot and eveningstar challenge loot and LoB alchemicals, so it would be cool to just make the ingredients useful in some other way.
But I also get why Turbine doesn't do that. Because of the bulk of those mats sitting out there that would immediately be used to obtain things without having to run content. (which would be counter to the goal of such turn-in creations. To create incentives to run the older content).
But I still think doing so would be a net positive for the game overall.
I also think that Turbine should focus on more novel and creative quest design and challenges vs. just pure grinds. Unique puzzles, traps, and combat mechanics. Things that require the party to coordinate or be focused and organized or skilled vs. just being able to brute smash stuff with DPS. But I'm looking for challenges beyond Sacks of HP or incoming damage that is in the one-shot range for players with 200+ PRR. Unless those HP can be mitigated through in quest tactics or mechanics or that damage can be mitigated via in quest tactics, positioning, timing, or skill. The end fight of DoJ is an example of this poorly done. That tactical detonation effect that goes off would be a unique and challenging mechanic that I would have no problem with having be a virtual insta-kill. If there was a tell/way to predict the location and players had a methodology for avoiding it. And the boss had enough HP to make it even be a factor in most runs. Stuff like that (when done correctly, not when done like that was) can create challenging fights that are fun to repeat and build characters and solutions for. The end fight of Slavers 3 is another with a unique mechanic that is a good try, but with a little more thought and effort could have been really fun and challenging. As it is, it just isn't a challenge though. Because the party is never really at risk.
I also think the game needs a new, exclusive grind for level cap. The 8 Legendary 6 man quests and 3 Legendary Raids should all get a Legendary difficulty added. This difficulty should be much tougher than LE. Very tough to beat (if you can) with completionists and epic completionist toons geared out in correct destinies with optimized builds and twists by competent players using tactics. They should be virtually impossible to solo.
The 6 man quests should have a legendary timer - 1 completion per day. The raids a 3 day legendary timer per completion. No bypasses for legendary difficulty. Each completion earns a Legendary Token. These tokens get you shit you can't get any other way. A way to improve your character while staying at cap. But only by running the hardest content. You use the TR/ETR process and the non-legendary quests and lower difficulty versions of the legendary quests to get a character to a point where they can play in this pool.
(If the above concept sounds vaguely familiar, that's because they got pretty close to it once upon a time. They just made the grind too infinite and they messed it up with a massive level cap raise)
There are a lot of differences of opinion I have with how Turbine is proceeding vs. how I would like them to proceed. I get that frustration by players. I have it too in a lot of areas.