guardbreaking is pretty gnarly

FLOW SET UPS :

swash, 12 barb 7 bard 1 fvs

Flow + cain

twists :
reign
primal
hail of blows
shield mastery

tier 5 Berserker.

str based. 105 str w divine ( 58 cha ) + tenser and raged.

281 mp bursting under barb rotations, blitzed, and prowess ( haste ).
113 mp base
73 doublestrike

silent + adherent
non-twitch times.

good news ; Crits 5k to 6k, 7k ( if slaughter crits on a 20 ).

bad news : 42 to 38 seconds.
12k~ DPS

ap ; https://imgur.com/a/zeG26zi


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
ravager tier 5
109 str
73 doublestrike
93 base mp

54-52 seconds
9k dps
ap : https://imgur.com/a/7MYzCd3

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

slayer t5
100 str
88 base mp
73 doublestrike
60-62 seconds
8k~ dps
ap :https://imgur.com/a/9a1q16D




---------------------------------------------------------------------


DAGGER SET UPS :


12barb 6bard 2fvs

Pain + Cain

tier 5 ravager.

103 str
83 doublestrike
128 base mp

ap ; https://imgur.com/a/z0iCYh3


38 to 42 seconds.
12k~ dps.
//////////////////////////////////////////////

12/6/2
VKF tier 5
148 mp base
105 str
36 to 38 seconds
13k~ dps.
ap; https://imgur.com/a/sKF0A3T

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

slayer tier 5
100 str
83 doublestrike
128 base mp

ap ; https://imgur.com/a/lKIcNnk


42-44 seconds
11k~ dps
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

berserker t5
133 base mp
83 doublestrike
107 str

42-44 seconds
11k~ dps.

ap ; https://imgur.com/a/9B2AO1s

Pally tempest did much better than I estimated. Guess tempest tree carries hard as fuck. I will try a pure 20, and probably a 14/6 kensei as well. Though I still have not tested kensei swashbucklers, or the 10/6/4 fusilade build. I should also redo barb after the crazy strike stacks nerf. Should be able to complete all of these tests by the end of the next lama.


Paladin tests :

15/5tempest
calamity x2
94 str under divine + tenser + primal
55 cha
66 doublestrike
104 base mp

twists :
symmetric
primal
hail of blows
tunnel vision

29 to 32 seconds
16k~ dps.

ap : https://imgur.com/a/sTkuvHv

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

14/6 kensei pally

130 base mp
62 base doublestrike ( 72 zeal )
103 strength under tenser + primal + divine might
54 charisma

31-33 seconds
15k~ dps.

ap : https://imgur.com/a/xhO8U4E

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


The pally versions seem to be close, while kensei should pull ahead post-1k cuts on larger hp targets. I will not be doing a pure pally. The pure paladin has even less room to maneuver its ap into dps sinks, as the only options are VKF, Harper, and racial. It is going to be significantly behind in MP vs kensei splashes, and lower doublestrike, mp, offhand attack rate, and offhand half damage vs tempest splash. I would guess probably around 50~ seconds fully kobold specc'd for pure pally.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 19^th, 2018 at 6:04am:


I've not been able to get in game much the last week or so due to rl demands.  Sorry if I missed something.  What's this about?

StratleThot wrote on Sep 19^th, 2018 at 9:26am:


Rubbinns wrote on Sep 17^th, 2018 at 11:17am:


There is just no way to account for every single permutation of each individual build choice, gearing choice, feat selection, and past lives in this game. The tests are like the speedometer on your car. If every build is optimized for the most extreme dps set up then it becomes easy to tell what will rise to the top once concessions for survival are made. If I were to try and test every single build, with every single piece of gear, it would take a near infinite number of variations and tests just for one class. All the tests are set up the same way so that it is fair to every build.

BTW 15 pally/5 tempest beats the piss out of 15 arty/5 ranger     

Asheras wrote on Sep 19^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

Crazy strikes would build stacks per hit, and if timed correctly ( staying on top of the rotation ), the stacks would carry over. So, for a twf barb that is 1-4 stacks per activation, multiplying every 12 seconds. It no longer stacks at all.

Quote:


I don't know a duder who does more DPS than Bigunk (or Annointed) on our server, and they can face tank the mound in R10 Toxic Treatment.

Quote:


I agree. However, you're wrong to criticize Rubbins' method. His method is consistent with itself which is very helpful in comparing classes. The amount (or type) of defense you want can change depending on the situation. E.x., On Baba when you get agro, a piece of spell absorb is literally all you need in terms of defense---every slot should be dps. E.x., Toxic Treatment mound fight needs HP and PRR in excess of 2.5k/220 or something.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Sep 19^th, 2018 at 5:44pm:

There are multiple players who can tank the mound on 10.  Hell, any decent reaper build can tank it long enough to make it dead in a proper R10 group by chaining defensive clickies, which is sort of my point about defenses being really important enabling good DPS.

I'm talking about performance of builds over the course of entire raids and missions though, not just 30s or 60s of spamming clickies.  I'm talking about on average, across a wide variety of missions, not this one specific mission or that one specific raid.  I'm far more interested in which builds can bring the pain without their sphincter clinching up every time they see more than 2 mobs at once.

I'm not denying that Rubbin's methods are consistent.  I'm also not criticizing them.  I'm just saying that they only show one specific aspect of a much bigger picture. 

They're great for determining maximum DPS potential in a vacuum, but they sure as shit don't show us which builds are highest DPS builds mission after mission in R7+ and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

I mean, you're not really trying to tell me that this is how you'd configure a tempestadin for R10 are you?


Because that's how Rubbins is testing.  He's showing us which glass cannon makes the biggest boom.  Then the question becomes, how much do each of those glass cannons have to give up to avoid being a res scroll sponge in high skull reapers?  Some of them will have to give up a lot more DPS than others to add in proper defenses.

Strat's comment is a prime example of what I'm getting at.
StratleThot wrote on Sep 19^th, 2018 at 9:26am:


Strat's in-game DPS doesn't really match the test result because he gave up some of it for defenses.  Maybe other builds that do similar damage may not have to give up that much DPS to get comparable defenses?

You even touched on this by acknowledging that there are some recommended minimum defensive stats, 2.5k+ HPs and 220+ PRR.  Which builds can hit those defensive numbers while still cranking out 17k+ DPS? Those are the builds I want to run.

I'm not particularly interested in some macro-miracle 25k DPS kobold wonder-build that has 1.2k hps, 100 PRR, 10 MRR and 10 dodge.  That'd be great for facerolling EH and EE but it would be mostly worthless in high skull stuff because it would die every time a mob farted in it's general direction.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 19^th, 2018 at 8:12pm:

That's the point.  You min/max the defenses to hit the minimum specified defense specs using the least amount of points/resources possible, then you min/max the DPS with whatever is left over. 

In general, we can at least acknowledge that any melee DPS build that's planning on running R7+ at cap should be aiming for at least 2k HPs, 200+ PRR, and 20%+ dodge. 

Most good reaper melee DPS builds should be able to hit those stats one way or another.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 20^th, 2018 at 12:21am:

I'm aware that first-life toons won't be doing 17k dps with those defensive stats.  That's the point I'm trying to make about the tests results only showing part of the picture when you dump all defenses. 

The short version of the point is that the DPS rankings would probably change if you didn't dump defenses because some classes and builds can add defenses in relatively cheaply while others would have to give up a lot to get the same level of defense.

Wrapping up swashbuckler week on lam for talk like a pirate day. Kensei was the next and final split.

It blew me away how ridiculous kensei swash can be using daggers and the op af VKF tree.

Combining the damage increase of both the lensei and vkf trees puts it ahead of the barb variants. Multiple reasons for why the daggers perform so well, but largest factors are the MP from vkf, rapid slash, and due to Pain having fetters, improved deception, and sovereign vorpal ( which is kind of good with PSWF ). PSWF also pushes deadly strike further.

I went and swapped out the shield feats for even more melee power feats from 12 levels of kensei, and swapped to open hand fighting for 10 doublestrike and +5 damage. YOLO.

These versions are most likely the highest dps focused swash versions possible, and with the times to show for it. Tier 5 VKF is almost identical to tier 5 kensei using Pain.



Kensei swash variants.

Dagger set ups :

kensei swash 12 6 2
Pian + open hand ( 10 dstrike +5dmg )
t5 vkf
79 base doublestrike
168 base mp
60 cha
113 str primal + tenser + divine might + power surge + action surge

twists ;
reign
hail of blows
primal
tunnel vision

30-32 seconds
16k~ dps

ap : https://imgur.com/a/sGjfjpy

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

kensei t5
80 base doublestrike
168 base mp
59 cha
113 str power surge + DM + Tenser + primal + action surge

29-32
16k~ dps

ap : https://imgur.com/a/K0Dx3bN

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Some thoughts and ideas. The dagger versions are going to beat any other weapon a swash can wield as of right now, largely because the vkf tree is sick and Pain is just insane. The Kensei tier 5 variants can rng into higher end times due to deadly strike and good death, and should also be better against helpless targets due to those 2 abilities.

If they were to buff swash at this point then they should probably focus on reining in splashes by alloting the melee power into the level 18 and 20th cores. The devs can probably push it and do something wild like placing 10 mp into the 18th, and 20 into the 20th.

This would allow for pure variants to compete with the VKF tree and kensei/barb splashes, while using something other than Pain. Weapons like Flow, Savior or light maces on a scourge race. And enabling warchanter as the auxiliary tree instead of what is occurring now where Kensei/VKF/Barb trees are the main tree and swash is relegated to the distant 3rd wheel. Pushing the swash tree itself back into prominence while enabling cc from warchanter.

The barb versions covered the other day could also increase the dps slightly by going open handed. But kensei just synergizes too well for barb to outpace everything. Possibly a barb scourge version using the ravenloft light maces, with racial ap, and tier 2 fvs for 14 vulnerability stacks in the first 6 seconds, could be on par by giving the mace an additional 2 crit multiplier, and expanding the range with pulverizer.

This concludes the swash tests, and most of the melee builds. I suppose we can now move on to the infinite animal variations next.

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 19^th, 2018 at 12:13pm:


Ah. Gotcha.

crunch wrote on Sep 20^th, 2018 at 8:06am:

Kensei, Pain, PSWF, and VKF synergy is just too good, static +31~ to dmg, much higher and largely static melee power that doesn't rely on rotations to boost it temporarily, and nearly 100% uptime doublestrike will outpace any weapon that could possibly be wielded by a swashbuckler.

You could somewhat negate the fetters of Pain by taking 2 fvs levels and using smite weakness. But it is slower than fetters. Smite is on a 6 second cooldown and stacks 7 vulnerability stacks per activation. Fetters is anywhere from a 25 to 50% proc chance and gives 3 to 7 stacks per proc. There is just no real way to surpass that amount of vulnerability stacking and getting some lucky RNG can stack it fully in the first few hits of an encounter. PSWF on Sov Vorpal is around 30 damage per hit, and deadly strike scales with (333+) melee power if it vorpals on a 19-20 for over 2k a proc. This all combines to essentially surpass Strom's Eye, which is something swashbucklers could never select.   

Rubbinns wrote on Sep 19^th, 2018 at 6:04am:


Ah, too bad. Had hoped for a pure "baseline" test, but thanks for the estimation and the mc tests. ~30 seconds isn't too bad when you're running a gimp class as base?